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Post By
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 8,284
In Reply To
MysteryMan

Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 937
Subj: Re: I seldom read posts this long.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 at 04:05:38 pm EDT (Viewed 95 times)
Reply Subj: Re: I seldom read posts this long.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 at 12:44:37 pm EDT (Viewed 101 times)



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        BOTH sides are guilty of this. I just expected the Left to behave better than the Right. But every day they become more and more like those they fight against, which will make them no better if they continue. And there is nothing but denial coming from the Left that they have issues...so it may already be too late.



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      Obviously you don't follow politics on the left very closely if you think the left denies having any issues. The left is strongly divided between Sanders and Clinton supporters at the moment and fiercely debating whether the Democratic Party should move further left (Sanders supporters) or more toward the center (Hillary supporters). The left is also fiercely arguing about political correctness run amuck on campuses among student leftists. If you read op-ed pages of major newspapers, you'd see this regularly.



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    If you want to cherry pick examples sure...I can point to McCain being against Trump in a lot of things. Overall we are just mostly bombarded with it not being the Left's fault but the Rights.


Do you change the goal posts every time or are you being deliberately obtuse? Here is the statement of yours that I was responding to, "And there is NOTHING but denial coming from the Left that they have issues." Note I emphasize the word "NOTHING" because that's more than a bit sweeping, and so I pointed out that actually, the left readily admits it has issues and they are vigorously debating those right now and that you can see this debate carried out on op-ed pages. I didn't say anything about the Republicans being divided or not and that has nothing to do with your assertion, so I don't know why you're bringing up McCain.


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        I truly believe we don't have the Right to thank for Trump...we have the Left to thank for him.



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      The left inadvertently contributed to Trump's election in some ways, but certainly the bulk of the right voting for him and the bulk of the left voting against him means the bulk of the blame goes to the right. That's just common sense, right?



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    See...it's the Rights fault right? Not the Left for terrible candidate? Not the Left for DNC shenanigans? Not the Left for sending out mixed and terrible messages?


Do you not have an understanding of degrees of accountability? That's what I'm contending here. I said that, sure, the left can bear some responsibility for Trump's election, albeit mostly in the it-did-not-do enough-to-prevent-it sense, but MOST of the responsibility clearly has to be the right's. That's contrary to your assertion, "I truly believe we don't have the Right to thank for Trump...we have the Left to thank for him." The vast majority of Trump's votes came from the right and not the left. That alone makes giving the left MOST of the blame nonsensical. The left did not elect Trump in the primaries. The right did. The left did not elect Trump in the general election. The right did. How can the left possibly be more to blame than the right for Trump's election? Trying to prevent Trump's election poorly cannot possibly be more blameworthy than actively getting Trump elected.




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