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Subj: Re: I seldom read posts this long.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 at 04:43:35 pm EDT (Viewed 503 times)
Reply Subj: Re: I seldom read posts this long.
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 at 04:15:38 pm EDT (Viewed 555 times)
Quote:BOTH sides are guilty of this. I just expected the Left to behave better than the Right. But every day they become more and more like those they fight against, which will make them no better if they continue. And there is nothing but denial coming from the Left that they have issues...so it may already be too late.
Quote:Obviously you don't follow politics on the left very closely if you think the left denies having any issues. The left is strongly divided between Sanders and Clinton supporters at the moment and fiercely debating whether the Democratic Party should move further left (Sanders supporters) or more toward the center (Hillary supporters). The left is also fiercely arguing about political correctness run amuck on campuses among student leftists. If you read op-ed pages of major newspapers, you'd see this regularly.
Quote:If you want to cherry pick examples sure...I can point to McCain being against Trump in a lot of things. Overall we are just mostly bombarded with it not being the Left's fault but the Rights.
Quote:I truly believe we don't have the Right to thank for Trump...we have the Left to thank for him.
Quote:The left inadvertently contributed to Trump's election in some ways, but certainly the bulk of the right voting for him and the bulk of the left voting against him means the bulk of the blame goes to the right. That's just common sense, right?
Quote:See...it's the Rights fault right? Not the Left for terrible candidate? Not the Left for DNC shenanigans? Not the Left for sending out mixed and terrible messages? I am sure you can bring up countless terrible things on the Right...and I would agree with you. We are talking the Left. And again...their inability to see their own failure here. They cant stop talking about losing the election many months later.
Quote:This last part is not true, or at least highly misguided. Did most people care about the DNC stuff? The everyday person? Seems unlikely. I imagine you paid attention to the election, it moved from scandal to scandal but the big ones were...
If they did not they sure should have. It was outright manipulation of the system for the candidate they wanted. Not who the people wanted...but who the PARTY decided we should have.
Quote:1. The email stuff with regards to Clinton
2. Trump's comments about women.
3. The amount of things Trump said that were off the wall and varied a bit.
1. Had a huge effect I am sure. Something that is extremely unfortunate.
2. and 3. You could write an edition of encyclopedia Britannica's about his terrible actions and words. This guy is a narcissist of the highest order. He's a perfect example of how to write a super villain.
Quote:The first two are the biggest ones that moved the needle. The biggest things effecting the outcome were
Quote:1. Neither candidate was particularly strong, and neither was able to really pull much ahead of the other.
2. Real or drummed up controversies at the time. These had great impact.
Sure thing I agree. But I will also point out...how bad do you have to be to lose to Trump? It was like watching tat episode of South Park where Cartman gets into the special Olympics events and loses every one he(Clinton) entered.
Quote:Most of the people already knew what they were going to do at any given point. But many were going to go either way. Then there was another email thing days before the election.
Quote:Consider, no wrong doing, or rather illegal activity, was found against Clinton but Trump's side pounded the drums endlessly about it. Few worried about that national security then seem to care much about Russia involvement or Trump getting rid of a fair number of the cyber security folks.
Quote:The left could have done better in some regards, but it is like you want to excuse the right wholesale. Like they had great messaging. They reached their base but it is not like that messaging was positive or uplifting in any way shape or form. And in many respects were as much identity politics that many say killed the Dems.
Quote:Reaching out to mainly white men and Christians. And playing up on cultural fears. I initially thought it had to do with some economics but some polling or data after the fact make that muddy. Many thought the US was going the wrong way. Rightly or wrongly.
As much as people like to blame Trump on being divisive. How was Hillary any better?
Basket of Deplorable
Only talking women's rights
Only talking minorities rights
That's a huge segment of the population she EXCLUDED from her speeches and her message was clear. How could she expect to drum up any support from these evil white men when she made it clear they had no place in her world?
Quote:The decided that an unhinged guy with no policy positions and more shady ties than probably anybody coming into office was a better pick. And if one wants to blame the MSM, one need look no further than banging the drum of anything involving Clinton's email. Real or drummed up it was covered.
Quote:It was and should have been covered, but the logic of that mattering more than various sins from Trump was really only a big deal to those that were already going to vote for the guy anyway.
I still find it very telling though...there is a strong vibe that somehow its the evil white Christians who defeated the Democratic party, and not their own incompetence and inability to reach out to large segment's of the voters.
Obama managed it somehow. It's just too bad he couldn't pull a 3rd term.