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Post By
bd2999 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Ancient One 
Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,925
Subj: Re: A response to Jesusfan.
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 04:08:04 pm CDT (Viewed 353 times)
Reply Subj: Re: A response to Jesusfan.
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 10:31:06 am CDT (Viewed 614 times)



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      Well there are a lot of things we still cant measure...Dark matter etc...just saying being finite creatures there is no way to prove or disprove and infinite being/concept.



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    You're right, but though we can't directly analyse dark matter it has an effect, and we can measure the effect. We can do the same for the claim of the Abrahamic god.



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      Well its not that simple...ONLY Faith healing...ignoring modern medicine etc...that can be very detrimental.



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    People like to tell you it's not that simple, but it really is. Tried and tested medicine works, nothing else does.



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    Faith healing and 'alternative medicines' are often lethal. Why would you go to a doctor to cure your cancer when you believe that your pastor has already cured it? Why spend large amounts of money on doctors to treat your progressive illness when 'alternative medicine' claims to do a better job, cheaper? And by the time you find out you're wrong, it's often too late.


I would argue this a bit. More with the wording. I totally agree that in some contexts they are totally lethal and are horrible. In fact I agree that in every instance they are a waste. The ones that use something that may be useful should be handled in the scientific method and extracted and improved where possible.

Much of the time, I am not sure they hurt folks though. Again, pending use. Somebody taking a sugar pill for pain killer is not hurting anything. However, as you rightly point out. Somebody taking that sugar pill for stage three cancer is hurting themselves. Same with refusal to take vaccines or any number of things.

Just semantics though, I agree with you. I just wanted to point out what you are already indicating that it depends a bit on what sort of illness or malidy we are discussing. Much of the time it does no additional harm, because it is useless, and the initial illness is mild and would be resolved on its own anyway.

But alternative medicine is one of the greatest cancers going through society in most respects. It is a portion of the anti-intellecual sort of movement and is resistant to critical thinking or evidence. Often cult like.


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    Your point about the placebo effect is a very valid one. The 'alternative medicine' industry in particular makes great capital out of it. However, we see exactly the same effect in mainstream medicine. Doctors just don't shout about it as much, though they certainly acknowledge it's benefits.



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    I think it's a failing that doctors and scientists aren't supported more by the media. A doctor can perform a procedure a thousand times to an acceptable result, and the ONE time it fails, or he or she gets a judgement call wrong, it's pounced on by the press. So it's easy for science and medicine to get bad press, but because of this ridiculous tendency towards supernatural thinking (There are things science can't explain. There are more things in heaven and earth, etc) alternative treatments almost always get positive write-ups, despite having far higher mortality rates,



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    If people were taught how to research and - very importantly - how to evaluate evidence properly. If they were taught to stop thinking magically, if we could bolster trust in our doctors and medical procedures, the perhaps we'd see a rise in the placebo effect in mainstream medicine. And of course, the amount of people being actually cured would rise as well.



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      Faith and belief (when positive) + modern medicine not really detrimental. Morale is important...if faith gives you the morale to keep on going, then its helpful. If it makes you just give up...its detrimental.

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        That person but not everyone. Also there are a lot of odd passages in the bible about things like crop rotation and so on...some of which was actually useful. Many hands many changes. Most homophobes are usually gay people in denial and full of self loathing. It's too bad they just cant accept their own nature and understand it is not inherently wrong.



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    Yes, there are more than a few good ideas in the bible. But we already had those ideas without the book. No priest came up with the idea of crop rotation. Farmers did. All the good stuff about love, morals and ethics were already being practiced for thousands of years by humans. And you have to weigh the good in the bible with the bad. Hey, I may make a meme out of it:



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    'For every crop rotation, there's a genital mutilation'.







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