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Post By
Paste Pot Pete 
Wolfman Pete!

Member Since: Fri Jul 07, 2000
Posts: 11,450
In Reply To
Ancient One 
Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,923
Subj: Re: The day Jesus died.
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 10:09:17 am EDT (Viewed 496 times)
Reply Subj: The day Jesus died.
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 10:06:59 pm EDT (Viewed 619 times)

Previous Post

So, I don't think Jesusfan is going to reply to the question I put to him in the thread below. He makes the claim that, if you think there are errors or contradictions in the bible "There are none that can be found that have no resolution to them", and he goes on to say "Augustine had it right on when he stated that when one sees apparant mistakes in the Bible, that is due to either having an inferior translation of the text, the manuscript used to translate was faulty, or you are ignorant of what it means"!

So the question I posed was a simple one: On what specific day did Jesus die? An easy enough question to answer, you'd think, given that TWO of the gospel authors pin the execution down to a specific day. But there's a problem. The earliest of the authors, Mark, tells us this:

Mark 14:12 to 17

[12] And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
[13] And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
[14] And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
[15] And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.
[16] And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
[17] And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.


So Mark is quite specific. The disciples ask Jesus where they're to prepare the Passover meal. It's very clearly the DAY OF PREPARATION for Passover.

When night falls, they assemble, eat, and after the meal Jesus goes out into the garden and is arrested. He's taken before the Sanhedrin, then Pilate and in the morning ON THE DAY OF PASSOVER, he's executed.

All well and good. Except that the last of the Gospel authors, John, tells us this:

John 19: 13 - 14

[13] When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
[14] And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


So John says he's executed on the day of preparation, a day that Mark tells us Jesus lived through. So what gives? Did they kill him twice?

Contrary to what Jesusfan (And Augustine) would have you believe, it's a contradiction that simply can't be reconciled. Jesus dies either on one day, or the other. The wording is specific in every translation we have going back to the original Greek, so scriptural error isn't an issue. And no, we're certainly not ignorant of what it means.


Interestingly, this is an example of a contradiction, but not an error. 'John' knew exactly what he was doing when he places Jesus' execution on the day of preparation.

Basically, it boils down to John's theology, which had developed in the 30 or so years since Mark. By c the turn of the first century, when John wrote his gospel, Christians were doing their best to distance themselves and Jesus from their Jewish roots. Also, the gospels were written for the purpose of evangelism in a world ruled by Rome, and even in Rome itself. It simply wouldn't do to blame the Romans for the death of Christ himself. So the blame is put squarely on the shoulders of the Jews.

John's is the ONLY gospel to refer to Jesus as the 'lamb of god'. And that's significant. During Passover Jews slaughtered lambs as part of their sacrifice. But they did it on the day of preparation, not on the day itself. So John alters the date of Jesus' execution. Jesus' death was the fault of the Jews, and they slaughtered the lamb of god on the day when it was traditional for them to slaughter lambs. On the day of preparation.

So here we have an example of one of the founders of Christianity, no less than one of the gospel authors changing an historical datum in order to further his theology.

Or to put it another way, John knowingly lies to his readership.

So a clear contradiction which can't be reconciled, a foundational father of christianity lying, and a cornerstone of Christianity built on that lie.

Wow!

And that's just one of many, MANY errors and contradictions that are in the bible.

Yeah and didn't two of the Gospels end with Jesus dying. I'm not even sure the original intention was that Jesus be a supernatural figure.

I think that evolved over time as Christianity "found it's legs" and figured out what its messages were.

I actually go to church but I see it as an important community group. A way to socialize. I've taken the spiritual out of it.

The weekly sermons are like a motivation speech.

A Christian believes that the holy spirit inhabits you and makes you a better person.

I believe you make yourself a better person if you try to.

PPP





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