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Post By
bd2999 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Ancient One 
Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,925
Subj: Re: A response to Jesusfan.
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 at 09:40:39 am CST (Viewed 357 times)
Reply Subj: Re: A response to Jesusfan.
Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 at 05:05:19 pm CST (Viewed 384 times)



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      The problem is our Judges are corrupt...I have seen it almost every single time I have been to court. Perhaps this is why I am not so trusting of them.



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    I've never sat in an American court, so I can't really comment on that other than to make the observation that these laws pass through the hands of many judges and courts, and are subject to change and amendment. Plus, an anti-discrimination law isn't just there to protect gays. It's there to guard against discrimination in all it's forms.


I disagree with MM a bit here. There are bad judges for sure and some are very ideologically driven on debates about Constitutional law.

Most judges are pretty good. They may make mistakes but they are doing the job to the best of their ability. The system itself is flawed as soon as people are involved.


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      That's fair enough...I would like to know more about the actual events instead of what is just reported by the news which is based on pure sensationalism these days.



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    Yeah, me too.



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      100% Behind what they did. I'd say Martins was not ONLY about Minority rights, but a valiant effort to draw humanity closer together. He was an amazing man and has had an amazing impact on the country of the United States. Rosa is an example of how hard it can be to stand up for someone to stand up for even basic rights and highlighted some very serious issues of the day that permeated public thought.



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    Right.



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    The big difference between a black person living in America in the 1960's and a gay person living anywhere in the western world today is that black people had to fight for damn near EVERY right, while gay people are already covered and protected by laws that cover and protect everyone else, so it's easier for the 'smaller' cases of discrimination to slip under the radar. Especially when people have the attitude - and this isn't a dig at you - that they're 'making a fuss over nothing', or 'they can always use another bakery'. It's just easier and less work to sweep stuff under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist when it doesn't affect you personally. But doing that leaves the issue unaddressed, and may even set a precedent for even greater forms of discrimination to flourish.



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      Agreed...I may have been wishing but I am leery of over regulating everyone's actions with laws. There are a good many terrible or just silly/stupid laws out there on the books. Probably too trusting to think people could handle this without enforced laws.



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    Agreed again. We have a great example in this community in Jesusfan. His views on gays are quite...iron age. Now, I don't believe for one second that Jesusfan is a bad person, but it's clear that his views and morals have been warped out of shape somewhat by biblical doctrines. And he's FAR from alone. We need laws to say 'Look, think that if you want, believe that if you want, but you can't put it into practice. It's against the law'.


Yeah, I think the issue with this, other than discrimination, would be it reaching into laws. It is a problem on multiple levels but many of those will scream Shiara law at the slightest provocation. What they mean is they want rule under their religion.

No religion has any real place in deciding laws. If it helps guide a person's views than it is a mix on their rationality. One can believe murder is wrong because the Bible says it and if they have numerous other reasons. But in the US at the moment we are trying very hard to work the more hateful aspects of Christianity into our national character. Which is appalling. And what is more appalling is more people are not just horrified.


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      The question is though...where do you draw the line? Can they no longer refuse service for any reason (other than say hygienic/safety)?



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    Ah, that's the question. But as I say, that's why we have judges and courts and legal systems.


Yup.


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      Not sure that we would ever see a case like this (for MANY reasons), but glad we can agree then. BOTH would be discrimination.



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    I've seen one recently.



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    I live in a town with a largeish community of Polish migrants. A few shops have opened here run by Poles, stocking goods (food mainly) imported from Poland.



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    We had a situation two or three years ago where a local woman needed something, a bag of sugar or somesuch. Her usual shop had run out, so she popped in to the Polish store to see if they had any, only for the owner to tell her they only served Polish customers. To cut a long story short, she took legal action and won.


As she should have.


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    Just as you can't discriminate against minorities, you can't discriminate against a majority either.


Indeed.


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      As an aside a pink penis cake I believe the cake company could say no too...just not no to say a regular cake shape because the couple was gay.



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    Well, yes. We have laws on decency too \:\)


Yeah, I do not even like to think about the State laws in the US...






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