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Subj: And all I see here are insults and not points...
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 at 09:06:51 am EST (Viewed 143 times)
Reply Subj: Honestly all I see are excuses here
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 at 10:30:45 pm EST (Viewed 154 times)
Quote:They were specifically non religious...they were in power.
The 3 greatest mass murdering cultures in the history of the word were
Quote:Those were arguably* the greatest mass murdering regimes, but you can't blame the entire cultures for their leaders, especially given the way those leaders came into and held on to power.
Quote:No they were...look it up. Mao...Stalin...then Hitler
Is it yes or no? I recommend reading his response in full instead of breaking it up.
Quote:I say arguably because it's impossible to even guess how many people were murdered in the name of Christianity over the centuries. Between the crusades, the inquisitions, witch hunts, murders for heresy, or being in the wrong subset of Christianity (Protestant v Catholic for example).
Quote:All specifically targeted religions.
Quote:Arguably because the facts don't support your argument. How many were murdered over money? Look its clear...you hate Christianity. Atheists and Muslims and every other religion just get along so great right?
What facts are you using to refute them? One could consider Gangus Kan or others. They killed on pretty epic scales in different ways. Other empires also did things like it over larger periods of time. How many, it is not always easy to tell how many people died.
It is even harder to tell how many people were killed for one belief or another. Be it in whatever. That has nothing to do with Christianity or whatever religion. One could make a bigger case that more people die because of the use or misuse of religion than whatever other cause.
Nazi's, the Soviets and so on killed all manner of people for all manner of reasons. It is whatever excuse they needed to get out there to meet their ends.
In Germany they gradually raised hatred against the Jews. Using in part some aspects of Christianity that still exist. Stalin killed all manner of people, some for no clear reason at all. Religion was mixed into nationalism for Nazi's. That is a fact. Was Hitler himself a Christian? Hardly matters?
If one wants to make that claim than is one to discount anybodies beliefs because they not whatever group a given person fancies? Does one assume Evolution is a lie because Darwin did not go to church enough?
Ancient One is trying to make something of a nuanced argument. I am not sure you are doing a great job of refuting it. More coming off as needlessly confrontational. AO, if you have paid attention, dislikes all religions.
Quote:When it suited them to do so. More so under communism than fascism. But even Stalin reinstated the Russian Orthodox Church in 1941. Why did he do that? Because he knew that religion was still a major factor in Russia despite the persecutions and he needed something to galvanise the people to patriotic fervour in preparation for war.
Quote:You didn't dare go to that church unless you were an old woman. If you say otherwise you don't understand what happened in other countries during this time period. Period.
Proof? Why would they restart the church in the first place then?
Quote:And that's the point I'm making here. Stalin may have been an atheist. Many of those in power around him may have been atheists - I dare say some were not. Closet Christians, as it were - but most of the population whether they dared show it or not, clung to some form of religious worship.
Quote:Some did some did not...this isn't the point we were talking about though.
Quote:And it's a similar story with Hitler.
Quote:But in any case, the associations don't establish causation. Hitler and Stalin didn't murder millions because they were atheists. They murdered them because they were psychopaths.
Quote:Hmmm...maybe the Christian leaders didn't murder people in certain time periods because...oh maybe they were psychopaths and not because they were religious?
This is something one could argue but it is also impossible for you to argue with a straight fact that religion is not used as an excuse. One of the most consistent ones in history that really is just authority saying to do something.
Be it mass murder, burning of heritics, slavery or whatever other thing. If there was a psycopath at the high end of things, they gave their view and it was the will of God. Most others went with it. Few of the good religious folks under them did much to question that view and just went with it. Usually until something big happened to stop it or a change in power.
This is not unique to religion but religion sure makes it easier. Does not matter what religion.
Quote:You hate religion so much you cant even see this.
I think one is wise to be highly skeptical of any argument from a religious pretext. If one is to actually critically consider something. Why should one believe a very old book and somebodies view on it on matters of critical important.
At the point in the world many debates result in evidence vs somebodies belief. And belief wins way too much. Way way too much.
Look Raist bunnies...
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