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Ancient One 

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,925
In Reply To

Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,554
Subj: Re: Honestly all I see are excuses here
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 09:43:14 am CST (Viewed 402 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Honestly all I see are excuses here
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 07:52:03 am CST (Viewed 443 times)

    Ok that's fair. But is it also fair to point out that I don't think I have once seen any other religion so harped against as Christianity on this board when its coming from Atheists? I personally am Agnostic. But those against religion on this board are always using the word religion or Christianity in their examples...and often Muslims and other religions are given a pass even if its only by omission?

There's a reason we talk about Christianity so much. We live in the Western world, where Christianity is still the overwhelmingly predominant form of religion. Christianity is the faith that impacts our lives on an almost daily basis (And I'm not just talking about negative stuff here, but positive stuff too). I interact on several science websites, and whenever someone of religious belief posts to tell us we're all wrong, that evolution never happened and the Earth isn't four billion years old, 99.9% of the time that someone is a Christian.

I'm more than happy to give my views on Islam - and they certainly don't get a pass from me - but the instances of me doing so are less because that religion impacts me less. I'm not picking favourites here.

    No because they were marginalized as women and as old. Your actually supporting my statement.

But your statement was just plain wrong.

    The data is out there...the people who lived through it are still out there...most people dared not go to Church PERIOD.

Just a cursory search turned this up on Wikipedia.

"After Nazi Germany's attack on the Soviet Union in 1941, Joseph Stalin revived the Russian Orthodox Church to intensify patriotic support for the war effort. On September 4, 1943, Metropolitans Sergius (Stragorodsky), Alexius (Simansky) and Nicholas (Yarushevich) had a meeting with Stalin and received a permission to convene a council on September 8, 1943, which elected Sergius Patriarch of Moscow and all the Rus'. This is considered by some as violation of the XXX Apostolic canon, as no church hierarch could be consecrated by secular authorities.[22] A new patriarch was elected, theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. The Moscow Theological Academy Seminary, which had been closed since 1918, was re-opened".

And I can back this up with similar information from many historical sources. Stalin wanted to reach fit, active young men who could go to war.

Was it old women who filled those 'thousands of churches' that reopened? Were they only teaching old women at the theological schools? No, of course not. They were open to, and attended by people of all ages and descriptions of both sexes.

    Your crisscrossing everything here.
    Countries that have better living standard education and human rights have less crime...INDEPENDANT of religion or not.
    Your mixing and mashing your examples haphazardly.

No, I'm not. There's a direct link.

Countries that are highly religious tend for example to treat women abominably. They have no say. The word of a man is always believed over the word of a woman. They get punished for being raped. Saudi Arabia only just this year repealed a law forbidding women to drive a car! They're denied education. They can't leave the house unless it's in the company of their husband, father or brother, and only then covered up from head to foot.

That's in the Middle East, primarily. But women fare little better in the African nations under Christianity.

Let's bring it closer to home. How many devout Christians in the US do you think would vote for or support laws allowing gays the right of marriage, or cohabiting gays the same rights as heterosexual civil partnership couples? How many of them ACTIVELY oppose those kinds of freedoms? That's just one example of many I could cite where living standards and social welfare suffer under the weight of religious dogma.

What about education? Evolutionary biology is the backbone of our current understanding of biology. It's crucial to our understanding of germ theory, for example. And yet there's a major push by Christians to get evolution taken off the school curriculum.

We know our sun is 4.5 billion years old. Our telescopes have detected light coming to us from galaxies 13 billion light years away. Where does it leave cosmology - or geology - where does it leave our understanding of our place in the universe if every astronomer is taught. and HAS to take the view that the universe is only 6,ooo years old?

These are not small things I'm talking about here. They're incredibly important. Science and the technologies that flow from science are the drivers of our economies here in the 21st century. If our scientific enquiry is curtailed, it has potentially disastrous consequences for the economy, and thus living standards and social wellbeing ON TOP of education.

So I'm not 'mashing examples'. Religion negatively impacts all of the above.

    You KNOW their primary motive was religious? How do you know? Maybe and I think far more likely they were people of power trying to hold onto that power and abusing it. Religion was one way for them to do so.

How do we know? Because they TELL us. How many of the crusades were motivated by something other than religion? None of them. Even the Albingensian Crusade - the only crusade executed on European soil - had a religious motive: To wipe out the Cathar 'heresy'.

The inquisition and the witch hunts were directly mandated by a papal bull of 1484, and justified by the bible verse that says 'You shall not suffer a witch to live', amongst others.

Why do abortion doctors get shot today? Because of religious belief.

Why did the 9/11 hijackers fly planes into buildings? Because of religious beliefs.

Why are buddhists slaughtering Muslims in Myanmar today? Because of religious belief.

    Atheism may not have been their motivating factor...but they sure used attacking those of religion as a focus for hate. Or can you honestly say Hitler didn't use hatred against religion to help push his goals for personal power?

No, of course not. But then, he often cited Jesus and Christianity when it suited him to do so - in his persecution of the Jews, for example. But then, Hitler was the most dangerous kind of man: A smart lunatic. Mein Kampf is one of the craziest books I've ever read. He says something on one page, makes a point, and then completely contradicts himself a few pages down the line. It's insane, as well as sickening.

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