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Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,554
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: I do not agree that the US has a liberal party...
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 09:10:37 am CST (Viewed 645 times)
Reply Subj: I do not agree that the US has a liberal party...
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 08:10:35 am CST (Viewed 648 times)


    To the point of the article. I disagree with how he is going at it. And also how this attack is made. The students have a right to voice their opinions just like anybody else does. That is a fact that hurts some's feelings but they do.

Voice their opinions yes...he isn't talking about that. He's talking about the ones doing much more than this. This is a VERY distinct difference. Or are you supporting those that are rioting because something someone said hurt their feelings? (I do not think you are saying this).


    The free speech on campuses angle is an easy one for some to point out and there is some validity too it but it also generally ignores that free speech also does not exist on all campuses out of necessity. In the class room, back when I was teaching, if somebody would talk politics in a biology class. I would stop it. I have the authority to silence that, it is not on topic for the class. Does not matter what their opinion is. It is not biology and does not matter. So, even signing up for the class, they acknowledge the class is biology and we are not talking other unrelated topics.

And if they are not in the classroom and suppressing this speech when they have been officially invited to speak? That's what is being talked about. Your example and point is valid...but has nothing to do with what he was talking about so is misleading. It's a false equivalency.

    To me it gets merkier with other things. Given the system, many unqualified people make these boards, the writer admitts as much. But I think he goes the wrong way here. Going after the students and a lesser agree the guy on the board. Shouldn't these places strive to put qualified people on these boards. If the guy knew what he wsa doing but was hyperconservative than at least he has a case with credentials. Right?

Wasn't it stated that it was known? It wasn't hidden what he was.

    While I agree there can be issues with some opinions being drowned out on universities. We have already accepted that at various other places. Large conventions, numerous echo chambers and so on. Universities get tax money for sure but that does not deny the students their speech either. For that matter does it give somebody the right to come on campus and spread half-truths and various hatred? Hate speech is protected, but at the same time...should it be tolerated?

There is a LOT of hate speech going on from both sides. And I find many left protect hate speech from say anti-fa and BLM, and many of the right protect it from neo-nazi's. But they don't protect the other sides right. IMO you protect the right of BOTH sides of it or none of it, not just one sides.

    Not directly involving this case, my side track I mean, but I think some of this gets more involved that we consider. We hear, complaints of those that students hate free speech. While lecturing students to accept all other speech and basically deny their own. Seems that activism is fine. They should make their opinions known about things. Students are already somewhat abused by universities with tuition hikes and everything else. The least they can do is be heard.

This isn't about letting them speak their minds. This is about them actively interfering on a physical level with another persons speech.

    They should not be the only voice by any stretch. But they should have a seat at the table. They are their to learn. And will carry on the universities legacy.

Sure...but they shouldn't be jumping up on the table and throwing feces on peoples faces and kicking them in the heads when they don't like what they hear.


    With respect to the writer, while I agree with some of his points, I do not think any of these is unique to liberalism. Conservatism is guilty of nearly everything stated in there from other angles. They just enjoy pointing out these examples.

As I stated at the beginning...if I had found as eloquent a post from a conservative I would have posted it. Why do you have to try to take this tack? This was about how to improve the liberal party...not say but the right is worse.

    Just like many of the more conservative base are apparently fine with voting for people accused and guilty of sexual assault. But then will happily turn around and go after liberals about people on their side. Even if said person was fired.

Yes yes and BOTH sides do this.

    "But somewhere on that list, too, is the cultural elitism of Democrats who want to brand anyone who disagrees with them as immoral and intolerant."

    I do have a few liberal friends that call folks that disagree with them facists. A few times it has basically been true in the context of the argument. I do not like that sort of thing at all.

    However, I still think it ignores numerous things. At some point along the line the people that voted for Trump looked at his list of lies, sins and wrong doings and said "This guy speaks for me". While liberals may have helped push a few people over that way. There are more people than there should be accepting of pretty bad aspects of policy and society. Be it gender, sex, race, immigration and so on. As that is what Trump ran on. Fear and division. Liberals may add to that, but conservatives embraced it. Not all of them, but enough to basically make things something of a nightmare.

Once again...this wasn't about "The Right is worse" or "The Right does this too". It was an attempt at CONSTRUCTIVE criticism on how to improve the LEFT. This completely distracts from that attempt.

I will say again...if I could find a RIGHT writer who made an honest attempt at pointing out what was wrong with the RIGHTS side I would have brought that up as well...but I couldn't...which is pretty damning in its own right. But that's a different topic.

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