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Member Since: Fri Aug 21, 2015
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Ahoy there zvelf...
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 at 07:29:39 pm CST (Viewed 541 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Upper Krust, a few words...
Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 at 10:16:17 pm CST (Viewed 790 times)

...apologies for the slow reply. Been REALLY busy (still somewhat busy but thought you deserved a reply) and I had checked your post previously and seen the massive wall of text and just thought 'that's gonna have to wait'.

    Here are some loose ends I'd like to address. I am quoting statements from you here, Upper Krust.

Okay zvelf, fire away...

    What rights have white citizens in the west got that non-white citizens don't?

    In the United States, the right to vote. Now non-white citizens ostensibly have the right to vote but the Republican Party here has done everything in their power to restrict that right for non-white citizens.

Okay, firstly that's scaremongering nonsense. The Photo I.D. laws are there to prevent people voting more than once (note that undercover reporters caught Democrats saying they would Bus people from one polling station to another) and frankly any place that doesn't require voter I.D. is nuts in my opinion.

I saw a video on this around the time of the election where someone went to New York (I think) and in a poor neighbourhood specifically asked African Americans if they had Voter I.D. and whether or not Photo I.D. was a problem and they interviewed DOZENS and every one of them said it wasn't a problem and they all had I.D. and didn't know anyone without it.

Now, I will defer on the other aspects you raised because I don't fully understand what other laws prevent people voting. I mean I don't understand the significance of Early Voting (for instance) and why it specifically affects African Americans?

    And clearly minorities are far more mistreated by law enforcement than whites in the U.S. In recent years, there's been a rash of cases in which police officers shot or otherwise killed unarmed blacks, far more per capita than the shooting of unarmed white men. Here is a list of just some of these deaths from 2015 alone:>

Here's the thing, there will always be accidents in a high risk job like law enforcement. If a police officer is caught causing harm to anyone of any colour above and beyond what the law determines just then I'd like to see them charged and arrested. But even then, its not cause for hundreds to riot in the streets.

1. Most black people shot by police (shot, not necessarily killed) are shot by Black Officers.
2. More White people are (shot and) killed by police each uneven amount given the amount of crimes committed.

    In all but 3 of these 16 cases, the officers got off scot free.

How do YOU know 13 of those cases were not genuine accidents?

    Compare that to what white racists can get away with - Cliven Bundy, who stated blacks would be better off as slaves, grazes his cattle illegally on Federal land and gets away with it because he goes around with an armed militia. And can you imagine what would have happened if two dozen armed black men took over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge like Cliven Bundy's son Ammon and his group of militants did? They certainly wouldn't have been acquitted like Ammon was.

I don't know anything about this but if he is breaking the law he should be punished accordingly.

    There’s also an extreme imbalance in the incarceration rate in the United States between blacks and whites due to racial profiling

That profiling follows on from crime rates. One doesn't come before the other.

    Blacks and Hispanics are three times more likely to be searched during a traffic stop than whites.

They commit more crime, that's why.

    Blacks routinely get 10% longer prison sentences than whites for the same crimes.

Okay I think this is wrong and I disagree with it, BUT I also disagree with women getting 40-50% shorter sentences than men for the same crimes.

#SmashthePatriarchy \:D

    My knowledge of individual US Policies is hardly extensive but if Trump is so far-right (as you seem to think) why was he the first Republican candidate to champion gay rights and wave the LGBT flag at the convention when he addressed the issue?

    To court a voter base that he then completely abandoned after the election when he banned transgender troops from serving in the military

Weighing it up I think I'd say this was a smart move.

    and endorsed a huge homophobe in Roy Moore.

Fundamentalist Christians disagree with homosexuality. That's their choice. I disagree with it, but they are entitled to their opinion.

Approx. 90% of ALL muslims disagree with it too. Again, that's their choice, the difference being that in many Islamic countries they are just executed.

    There is no overt racism. That's why he had the largest Black and Hispanic support of any Republican in decades (if ever).

    I'll tackle your second statement first. It's a lie. In 2016, 8% of blacks gave Trump their vote. In 2004, 11% of blacks gave Bush their vote. In 2016, 29% of Hispanics gave Trump their vote. In 2004, 44% of Hispanics gave Bush their vote. The statistics are here:

Well I'm going to accept your statistics (I don't have the time to check all your copy/pasted arguments) but let me ask you this...are those Black and Hispanic Trump voters racist Nazis?

    As for "no overt racism," on 6/16/2015, Trump erroneously characterized Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists when immigrants, legal and illegal, commit crimes less frequently than U.S. citizens.

I already explained this to Norvell; his table folded Hispanics into Whites and also included Black Crime stats.

Immigrants commit less crimes than US Citizens IF we include crimes from black and Hispanic communities.

They still commit more crimes than Asian or White communities.

    Trump said illegal immigration is "absolutely out of control" and there is a flood of illegal immigrants from Mexico when the U.S. actually lost a net 140,000 Mexican immigrants between 2009-2014

...because Obama was deporting them in record numbers. But that doesn't mean it wasn't still a problem.

    Trump said he wants to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. Banning people based on their religion is outright discrimination. On MSNBC, Trump would not disavow Japanese internment camps.

I think he was just talking tough. He has done neither.

    Trump and his father’s company have a long history of racial discrimination in renting out their properties ( When Clinton brought this up in their 9/26/2016 debate, Trump did not deny it. His defense was that “many other companies throughout the country” were sued for the same thing, but he was able to settle “with no admission of guilt.”

I read the article and its to do with something that happened back in the 60s. I mean seriously zvelf. The whole article basically confirms predjudice existed back in the 60s...what a shock!

    In 1989, Trump took out full-page ads in all 4 major NYC newspapers calling for the execution of 1 Hispanic and 4 black youths known as the Central Park Five, who were accused of raping a jogger. Even after DNA evidence exonerated them after years of false imprisonment, Trump still claims they are guilty even though another man has confessed to it and DNA evidence confirmed it. Trump reiterated this claim on 10/7/2016.

We went over this in our debate last year.

    He has all the trappings of a loony Christian Fundamentalist. However, I don't see much (if any) of his beliefs becoming law.

    If Trump backs enough lunatics like Roy Moore then what they believe would become law. That’s the whole point of not backing ANY in the first place! I mean, Trump has freakin’ endorsed Roy Moore who has sexually assaulted minors! If Trump endorsed Hitler even though Nazi beliefs wouldn't become law, is that okay? It would be according to your logic here.

Again I am no supporter and know little about this Roy Moore character although the article I just read said he'd been ACCUSED of assaulting them. If he'd actually been convicted he'd no longer be a Senator (although then again Bill Clinton managed okay). So I am assuming these cases are either pending or he won...?

    So potentially 60 million ugly human beings in America today according to you.

    Sure, out of a population of 325 million, 18% ugly ain't that bad. 

Leftist mental illness, faux-outrage scaremongering from people who believe they hold all the moral high ground.

    Anyway, 60 million Americans who would vote for the most crass, indecent, lying, temperamentally unstable, woefully uniformed, inexperienced, and self-interested President of all time who also happens to be a racist and misogynist and callous con man, yes, they are certainly abetting ugliness.

Hillary LOST. Get over it. \:\)

    The Patriarchy is imaginary?


    I suppose it's just a coincidence that the United States has never had a female President or Vice President in its 240-year history?

Its irrelevant. If one is good enough, she'll win. Hillary was rubbish, she lost...big league.

Here in the UK we've had two female leaders, no one gives a **** what sex the leader is (outside of far left idealogues). If the people think they are the best candidate, they'll win. If the people think they are not the best, they'll lose...and when they lose it will NOT be because of sexism, simply because the voters preferred the other candidate.

If Obama hadn't won you'd still be bitching about how no African American had become President.

Maybe Ivanka will win in 2024.

    That more than 80% of Congress are men? That 88% of our 50 states have men as governors?

More men enter politics than women (at least this is true in the UK, I am not sure about the US). So that's probably why there are still more men in politics.

    That the past two months revealed a score of powerful men in industry and government who have had multiple allegations of sexual harassment or misconduct stemming back decades? That their power deterred their victims from speaking up until now? Nah, that's all imaginary.

Complicit in all this are Bill Clinton and your beloved Hillary.

    No, his brag is not the worst, though until then, that would have been sufficient to sink any U.S. presidential candidate.

Luckily he was up against Hillary then.

    Sixteen different women alleged sexual harassment against them by Trump. Not one, not two, SIXTEEN.

I've seen ALL the reports and most of these 'sexual harrassment' cases involve a (known Democrat/Hillary supporter) claiming Trump kissed them on the lips instead of the cheek when saying hello.

    I'm sure you're going to dismiss it,

I dismiss false claims yes.

    but then you'd have to do the same for Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Roger Ailes, Kevin Spacey, Charlie Rose, and Mark Halperin too, right?

Is that a list of deviants or Obama and Clinton donors?

    You'll probably excuse Roy Moore's pedophilia too.

If he's guilty he should go to jail...or settle out of court like Bill Clinton.

    We have recordings of Trump boasting about bursting into Miss America pageant dressing rooms to look at the women undressed and the women attesting to that. Is that inappropriate enough for you?

Sounds like he was a bit of a playboy back in the day, how many of the women at the pageant have posed naked?

Shall we mention the moral high ground of the Pageant Contestant who later went on to have sex on a reality television show?

    We have video footage of Trump looking at a passing 10-year old and saying that he would be dating her in 10 years. Is that inappropriate?

Was he joking or does he regularly say stuff like that, you know, like 'Uncle' Joe Biden.

    Do those things make you think he's lying about his groping and that all these sexual harassment allegations against him aren’t true?

I think if they LET YOU touch them, it isn't sexual harassment.

    You think all of these women who have given detailed accounts are lying about Trump?

I don't know. I think some definitely are though (the woman on the plane for instance).

    Isn't it a bit odd though that you do accept the allegations against Bill Clinton but not Trump?

Bill Clinton settled out of court on 4 rape cases and made 28 trips to a billionaire Pedo's Private Island; where that guy also settled on multiple cases.

Trump refutes all allegations against him.

    Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price had to resign after reporters revealed that his trips cost over $1 million. Keep in mind this $1 million was spent in only 6 months time! Breaking all kinds of ethics rules,

...and when caught he resigned. Whats the problem?

    Trump's spokesperson Kellyanne Conway actually went on tv to promote Ivanka Trump merchandise!

No she didn't, I've seen the clip and it was a slip of the tongue.

    Trump fetes foreign leaders all the time at his clubs and resorts reaping hundreds of thousands of dollars for himself in the process.

But gets less in donations from foreign leaders than your beloved Clintons.

    Lying constantly?

No more or less than any other politician...and far less than Crooked Hillary.

    Threaten nuclear war with North Korea to the point even the Republican Congress is considering legislation to restrict Trump's ability to launch a nuclear strike on his own (because you know he can do it any time he wants to, right)?

Trump won't start a nuclear war, so stop talking rubbish. If North Korea starts one, THEN Trump will he should.

    Hiring a coal lobbyist as deputy administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency?

I'm sure they'll do a better job than Huckster Al Gore ever could.

You address Omnipotence...tread carefully.
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