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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 16,881
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Member Since: Sun Jan 02, 2011
Posts: 2,546
Subj: Re: I don't know what it means to be conservative.
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 at 10:52:53 am EST (Viewed 385 times)
Reply Subj: I don't know what it means to be conservative.
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 at 09:44:33 am EST (Viewed 343 times)


      although this election is quite a bit closer than it has any real right to be. Alabama is the reddest of red states. And it is basically a tie in the polls. Given the leanings of the state most people will break for Moore in the end anyway, but it is shocking that it is this close.


        It does partly move along the trend of even deep red areas swinging hard the other way. A few double digit red races have had special election results that were in the single digits and only within a few points in several. I am hoping that points to at least better things to come. At least with holding Trump accountable. Because the GOP has no interest in that at all.


          Back to the point. Much of the Moore, or even Trump, brand of conservatism is based on victimization. They happily attack others for being too PC but their entire situation is anger that the world is not some idealized thing in their minds. They want their views to be paramount.


            In many cases, it is the right to hate and discriminate against other people. And that is horrible. Just horrible.


              Not all conservatives are like that, but it has been a growing movement that has gradually taken the party. It is not that liberals are sunshine and rainbows but by comparison they might as well be in most respects.


                It does show the hypocrisy in many religious conservative voters. I am sure most of them demanded Frankin resign and others but if it is their guy than evidence is needed. Even if there were photos they would come out saying he was a good man. Not sure I have seen any evidence that Roy Moore or Donald Trump are good men by any stretch. At least not their public faces.

    Call me crazy or naive, but I don't understand conservatism anymore. What is it? Can it even be defined? Based on the bizarre array of fringe figures at CPAC, I think they're having a serious identity crisis.

It is a strange mixture of economic, religious and immigration forces that have been brought together. The three have been forced together in a way they were never really intended to be.

In my most negative opinion what it has become is something of the most negative impulses of some voters. Fear of foreigners, fear of people with different beliefs and lifestyles become more prominent and a displaced concern to ignore the lazy poor to give nods to the successful rich.

All merged together under an umbrella of victimized where everybody is always attacking religion (or their views of it) or their ability to say what they want about anybody and not face any sort of blow back. That is basically it. All while wrapped in a flag attacking others for not following their iteration of the Constitution from the founding of the country that only fully exists in their mind.

Not all conservatives are like that but the CPAC crowd is. And they are the GOP now.

    People are now conflating Trump, Bannon and Moore with modern conservatism, and who am I to say they're wrong?

They are not. To me they are just the personifications of the Tea Party movement and the natural conclusion of some of the views that have always been there. But dialed to the extreme end.

Just good at harnessing perceived anger and directing it at things that are not as big a problems while throwing all others out the window. Protecting what they see as the status quo and casting others aside.

    And if Alabama is the reddest state, then the assumption is that they represent a pure, more correct form of Republican conservatism.

I think that would be accurate. At least in modern respects. One of the biggest shifts to conservatism or even the GOP is selective deficit memory. When Dems are in power it is all that matters. When the GOP is in power than if you are helping the rich than have at it.

Add on top of that the new opposition to free markets that was defining in the past. The protectionist policy and various other policies will do a fair bit to help the US decline in world power and importance.

    I get the nostalgia of the 1950s, but not the 1850s.

Yeah, but even then. The whole "MAGA" idea is stupid. There was never a period of history where everything was perfect or better. It is frustrating to me, and not only from the right, that we ignore history.

The war against regulations going on now ignores outright why these things came to be. What happened? Were they effective? Does not matter, government overreach and is bad all of the time. Get rid of them. That is the motto.

If one believes Roy Moore the last time America was great was around the Civil War. Despite there being slavery. Which is stunning.

The good economic periods it is not shocking that people like to remember. Their job was secure and so on. Which is what matters for most people, but there are such selective memories. The 80's in particular saw the conservative movement ignore AIDs and consider it a punishment on gays. Not all, but too many. Enough to have Regan ignore it at first as the health crisis it was.

Even now it is an issue. Look up some of the quotes from former HHS directer Price's wife. She is a MD, like her husband, but was opening discussing the possibility of locking everybody with HIV away, since they were living longer now.

It is not every conservative, or indeed unique to conservatism, but the whole anger at things different is the underlying theme. Liberals have a similar but less focused hatred. Some conservatives have been having the same battles since the 70's. The dedication is pretty intense.

Look Raist bunnies...
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