Subj: Using the UK as an examplePosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 at 03:18:24 pm EST (Viewed 985 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Not sure I dissagree but there is one thing people always forget...
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 at 01:10:18 pm EST (Viewed 947 times)
Quote:But one could take that a bit further. Why is the US this way in the first place? We have about 4% of the world's population but just shy of half of the world's privately owned guns.
It's in our psychology and part of the very formation of our countries identity. There is historical evidence when govt. takes weapons out of the publics hands that said governments often become much worse. Not saying letting kids have access to machine guns is ok by any means though.
Quote:That in and of itself makes it easier for those illegal gun deals to happen. Access is pretty much prime in the US compared to anywhere else.
Quote:For that matter, why are guns so romanticized by such a vocal group? If somebody wants a gun to protect themselves than fine, but why do we find it acceptable in public discourse that the Second Amendment is a blanket Amendment to support insurrection to overthrow the government. Particularly when that was never the reality or the intention.
It was partly was it not? If British rule had removed all guns/weapons from the colonies. There never would have been a revolution...or a successful one.
Quote:I am pretty convinced that nothing can be done at this point at any rate that would get any realistic traction in the US. Apparently we accept that kids dying is just normal. And who cares about adults?
I agree sadly...as it would be better if we could do some things.
Preventing some individuals with problems from owning guns may be one area (this path was started to go down by Obama but Trump undid the executive action), bump stock ban did not go anywhere, folks on the no fly list cannot fly and do other things but can access a gun, the background check system we have needs to be overhauled to be more comprehensive and not let as many through the cracks.
To me this is a no brainer and is sickening and horrific that such simple actions have not already been in place for years.
Quote:Nothing, given how many guns are already present, will stop all gun crime, but much much more can be done to reduce the numbers.
Agree...there are so many ways gun crimes could be lowered that just are not done but should be.
I am not sure I buy into the tool argument completely. A gun is a tool, like a knife. But it is easier to do more harm with a gun than a knife. Easier to kill oneself or accidentally kill somebody. A knife has numerous intended uses other than stabbing somebody but guns are primarily there (based on proponents claims) to protect individuals, stop bad guys or similar things. Target shooting aside.
I would consider it a tool for hunting and maybe a psychological tool, but I get your point. It's a much more limited tool and should be definitely be classified as more dangerous than a knife.
Quote:Even intimidation with a gun is the threat of violence. We should treat guns differently and do much more to push responsible gun ownership. We do not know what really does that either. And that is pathetic at this point.
Agree...though I think if we admit it to ourselves, we really could agree on quite a few ways to be more responsible if ego, corruption, money, politics, etc...were not involved.
It is like most politicians are just happy to scede the debate to the NRA and be done with it. Ignoring that the NRA is not a good source for the history of gun rights either. Their ideas are actually quite scary and hinge mostly on scaring people. At least from what I can tell from the speeches I hear. I would much prefer them doing more to help official agencies to do more to make gun ownership safer with training and the like. At least it is something. Not the lone hero facades they want to paint.
Agree once again.
The Dunblane massacre tightly constrained firearms ownership in the UK.
Despite public belief, gun ownership is still legal in the UK, both for agricultural and for recreation reasons.
However it is heavily vetted for who should be appropriate, it is a 'right' as long as you can satisfy the conditions.
The perpetrator was widely believed to be a paedophile.
I am not American and I appreciate that gun ownership is part of your identity and history. However I don't see the point of having automatic weapons.
As I have bored people before, automatic weapons are deadly by thier very design.
You do not have to proficient to unload an automatic weapon, in a few seconds you can fire 30 rounds and effectively clear a room by just waving it around. With a decent scope, it is fairly easy to shoot someone, even someone who is zig zagging and running away from you.
It's not quite so easy to shoot with a handgun. A 9mm is really only effective up to 25 meters, whilst an automatic rifle (at least the one I used) is viable up to 800 meters away. It's also harder to maintain marksmanship principles with a pistol.
With a 9mm, you could be out of my range quite quickly. If you're trying to defenc yourself, surely you want them to get away? With a rifle, you may keep the range, but not that room clearing potential.
I am someone, who has been in 2 operational theatres and have the campaign medals for this. If I don't worry too much about never holding a firearm again, I am not sure why some Call of Duty players cannot.
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