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Subj: Re: Fallacies.
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 at 01:12:29 pm EST (Viewed 325 times)
Reply Subj: Re: No, Still Ridiculous.
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 at 05:38:49 pm EST (Viewed 340 times)
Again, 1 in 5 hospital shootings occur when someone takes the gun from an armed guard so these wouldn't happen in the first place had a gun not been present.>
Okay, first of all, what's your source for this? Secondly, how often do hospitals have mass shootings? The other thing that you said was the word STOLEN, as in illegal! There's also no implication as to whether or not the shootings would have happened if armed guards were there or not. We do know that mass shooters almost always target places WITHOUT guns. Also, one in 5 is not a majority.
Since discussion of whether or not the Second Amendment should be changed is a part of this debate, it's irrelevant to cite the Second Amendment as a reason for inaction. And if you're saying Americans have a more violent culture than Japan, that's a case for Americans having fewer guns, not more.>
It's not at all irrelevant, because one reason people are resistant about gun restrictions is BECAUSE of the Second Amendment! Comparing our country to others if other countries don't have a Bill Of Rights (The big Elephant in the room.) is meaningless. Besides, a lot of violence is committed by means aside from guns, guns just get most of the media attention and are politicized.
Again, if guns can easily come from outside the area of a gun ban, it's not much proof of the bans effectiveness, is it? However, country-wide bans around the world work. It's inarguably proven.>
Where is your proof that the guns in Washington that are being used in crimes are coming from outside the area? In Chicago and Detroit, that MIGHT be true, but Washington has had bans on guns for a looooong time, and the crime rates there DON'T go down (But they do in other states. ). Also, there are states out there (Mostly southern states.)that are big hunting states and have very lax gun laws but have very low crime or murder rates. And yes, if bans have been removed due to their ineffectiveness or have been ruled unconstitutional, that kind of does point to a ban being ineffective. There's also the black market, so even if guns were banned (Not going to happen anytime soon.), it will just open the black market more and make them more money.
Right now, automatic weapons are banned. Are you in favor of overturning that ban? Automatic weapons are guns. If not, why not?>
There have been certain guns that have been banned in the past, very few murders are committed with an automatic weapon anyway. If you want to ban CERTAIN kind of weapons, that's different. I believe that some are already banned.
Wrong. "Only" half of Arkansas, where I was born, is actually doing it:
Nearly 1 in 5 Americans believe alcohol consumption should be illegal. But I'm not calling on a total ban of guns, just much heavier regulation.>
Okay, I didn't know about Arkansas, but STATES are different than Congress and the Federal Government. It sounds kind of stupid (The alcohol ban.), but certain states have more leeway on these kind of things. The 1 in 5 statistic is not a majority, and 1 in 5 Americans believe that homosexuality is a sin, that gay marriage shouldn't be legal, and a bunch of other BS. The main point is that there's no debate as to whether alcohol should be banned. Also, if you can accept that there are towns in Arkansas that ban alcohol, you should also accept that there are cities and towns that more-or-less require you to own or carry a gun.
30,000+ gun deaths a year obviously prove that Americans cannot responsibly handle guns. Knives, sleeping pills, and cell phones don't cause nearly as many deaths as guns. Cars almost cause as many deaths but cars are heavily regulated. Guns are not. Guns should be.>
You're taking about gun deaths and lumping everything into one (A fallacy.), ignoring suicides and self-defense. All of those other things also cause a lot of deaths, nobody is arguing that people can't handle knives because there are people out there who stab other people or cut themselves. Also, guns are regulated (No, there is no "Gun-show loophole. They have to do background checks there AND online transactions. PRIVATE sales are different!), you can't sell to convicted felons, you have to conduct background checks, you can't sell to people who got dishonorably discharged, etc. It's perfectly okay if you want guns banned, but let's not fall into propaganda or distortions or emotional rhetoric here.
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