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Post By
bd2999 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
MysteryMan

Member Since: Fri Apr 28, 2017
Posts: 3,554
Subj: Re: Honestly I looked at it just like I looked at Clintons cheating on his wife
Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 at 08:30:23 am CDT (Viewed 648 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Honestly I looked at it just like I looked at Clintons cheating on his wife
Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 at 07:07:33 am CDT (Viewed 651 times)


I should have made it clear from the start that it is not my intention to be coming after you personally, if I came off that way I apologize. I just have seen this general train of thought other places and I find it to be a little frustrating and I really only post things here.


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      Is he doing his job as president?



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    Personally...I don't think so, at least not well.



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      For the other part, Trump and those that back him are the ones that have brought up all of these moral sorts of issues in the past. Against Clinton in fact.



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    And before him it was the Democrats until they got caught doing something. And before the Democrats it was the republicans...and so on and so on backwards adnaseum.


I am not trying to defend politicians. I am talking about the idea of things being ok because somebody can find a past counter example. Does that make it ok? Seems like they were both just as wrong.

If we are discussing Trump, does he even need to get caught? Some pretty bad stuff is out in the open and worse stuff gets uncovered.

I am not saying what Clinton did in the 90's was ok, but as a society we are often cool with the moral hypocrisy of many attacking Clinton for not being presidential and trying to impeach, but those same people make excuses for a hundred or more actions by Trump.

There is always hypocrisy in politics. However, we are in a golden age of lies at the moment. Not even only half truths but total lies. I find that to be unique to this administration. The sheer depth and disregard for reality. Don't get me wrong, Obama was not always honest, Bush had some pretty epic falsehoods and keep going back. But nothing hits this level.

And that seems to be borne out by presidential scholars too.


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    I think its ridiculous ANY of them try to claim the high ground.


I always have a problem with that, but it tends to slant more against those trying to slam down with morality. Liberals do it, but I find that religious conservatives are among the worst.


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      I guess moral hypocrisy is one sided.



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    No both sides are pretty damn hypocritical.


Hypocritical does not necessarily make a thing wrong or right though. It just means the person is inconsistent.

And even then it can be possible to view different situations differently. I am not saying I totally disagree.

I am just saying that many of the worst tendencies that were at least vocally given thought to being bad by whatever side are pretty much dead at this point. And currently only one side seems to care.


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      It is a little scary to me that folks are now of the mind that the office of president is nothing. It is like giving in to whatever tripe is being thrown out their by Trump's folks anyway. Obama got crap all of the time for varying gestures that were far less than anything Trump does in a given morning.



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    Well the true power has always lain with Congress...they are just a bunch of useless twats though.


Power is with all three branches, I would argue. The executive hurting enforcement and various policies is power. Congress, through direct action or doing nothing, has basically stamped that all of this is ok.

IMO, if nothing else comes out of the Trump presidency than a goal really needs to be pushed to the president into accepting the same ethical norms as other government officials. It will never happen but the amendment would be a good idea.


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    Obama also got credit for curing cancer and he could do no wrong...when he did plenty.


Oh, he did a ton wrong. That said, at least in my view, he also did a fair bit right.

If he did a ton wrong, or everything, it would not exonerate Trump's actions though. And I find that argument to be the height of poor arguing and debate style.

I never heard that Obama cured cancer though.


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    But before I am accused of liking Trump...no...Obama was x10 the President Trump has been.


I am not making that claim here. I just disagree with the idea that both sides are always doing it equally.


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      I just do not see many examples that Trump is doing a good job. One could argue his biggest accomplishment is North Korea, but it is hard to tell how much of that is him and how much of it is other factors. For that matter, will any deal with Trump matter once he pulls out of the Iran deal for no real reason?



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    Agree...I think he played a part...and it might be the shinning diamond in a turd of his Presidency...but how much credit he should get is very debatable as you said.



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      I am biased, but the examples of him being a bad leader and pretty poor president are pretty clear. Also driving the US back into the dark ages in environmental policy and other areas are probably reason enough to be critical of the guy.



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    Oh I think they do...it's also in part due to the media...they are like rabid dogs in their constant attacks. Which I have said before is bad...it ruins their credibility and ability to make people care more about our trash of a Prez.


We have had this battle before, but I am mixed on this. I thin we have honestly hit the point where it does not matter much what the media says. Those that support Trump majorly never really believed the media anyway, at least the core group.

Those that did not like him do not like him.

So, I am not sure that there is much the media could report that would hurt Trump among his base. And I would argue that a fair bit of what the media reports on Trump seems to be true and not good. It is hard to blame them when the guy does so much that is so questionable or outright horrible.

I would divide further that the whole bubbling of the media is still the worst thing. People can knock the big news channels like CNN and such, and rightfully so, but many of the highly biased ones like Fox and such are usually left to their own devices. And studies have shown they push more "fake news" than anybody.

What is worth being a big story or not is honestly hard to figure out. Given daily we hear about corruption in the white house. Those that don't want to hear it or believe Trump are long past being swayed.


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      If anything, he is showing that ethics do not matter to folks in high enough office.



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    And I say again...both sides have show this. The Kennedys can get drunk and drive and commit homicide on young women...but they were media darlings. I would not be surprised to find the Dems and Repubs strangling babbies in their cribs...95% of people in politics are terrible people.


I honestly do not remember much about the Kennedy's, but they should not have gotten away with things. But ethics and legality are not always the same thing.

I am talking about conflicts of interest, nepitism, hiring unqualified people and so on. Illegal activities should be punished in everybody equally but I am not trying to make a claim that they rae the same. Some are related but not always.

Somebody could act ethically or moral while violating a law that is neither. And somebody can act immorally or unethically while obeying the law.








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