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Post By
Sumidor

Member Since: Sat Feb 25, 2017
In Reply To
bd2999 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: US out of the Iran nuclear deal
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 at 12:41:24 am EDT (Viewed 757 times)
Reply Subj: Re: US out of the Iran nuclear deal
Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 at 08:54:54 am EDT (Viewed 735 times)



    Quote:
    I think your first point highlights how ridiculous and holier than though your approach was in this.



    Quote:
    At no point in your response to me did you address substance of this issue. You accused me of hypocrisy and gave various examples of what you consider historical examples of evidence that other people have done things at different points in time. Conviniently ignoring various contexts around the current issue under discussion or those events in the past. Just to make the point that other presidents have done stupid, bad or dumb things. Or things that might not have been, but were undoing unilateral poor decisions. All comparing it to equal ground with an international agreement to achieve on of the wests big goals of the last decade or plus.



    Quote:
    Add on top of that, the US will likely put sanctions to punish Europe for doing business with Russia. Driving another wedge between Europe and the US that did not have to be there. This only helps Russia and probably Iran. Who can now start the process to getting a nuke all over again.



    Quote:

    For somebody wanting to argue policy, you sure did none of that in your initial or follow up reply to me.



    Quote:
    What is the positive of what he did? Why did he do it when there was an agreement and no side had broken the agreement yet?


To address your continued statements that Iran had not violated the deal first: The agreement was invalidated by Iran by lying about it's past nuclear programs. One of the conditions for entering into the deal in the first place was that Iran needed to be 100% upfront about prior efforts. It seems they did not do so, which violates the agreement. When the deal allows self inspection, then it's very significant that Iran lied at the very start of the agreement process.

To address what positives could be achieved by exiting: Re-establishing sanctions on Iran, crippling it economically could lead to Iran submitting to a deal more favorable towards greater stability in the region. I'm saying this is a possibility, not a definite outcome.


    Quote:
    I guess that it is a positive to break an agreement you do not like for no reason if you agree with the person violating the agreement.


Statements of yours like this is precisely why I posted on this thread to begin with. I'm not saying that I know 100% that exiting the deal is better. I haven't read the deal, I don't know enough about it. But I do know enough to understand that there are two sides to the issue. There is more to this than Trump "being surrounded by yes men". Your insistence to ignore any valid reasons to exit the deal is ignoring facts. You stated that you personally despise Trump as an individual, and you stated that you are biased against him. You attack every action he does not because you have weighed both sides, but because you despise the man. You refused to admit there is another side with valid concerns. You have stated that "all accounts" show the deal is working, but that just isn't so. Many countries in the region don't think the deal is working at all.

One Saudi official stated "Iran used economic gains from the lifting of sanctions to continue its activities to destabilize the region, particularly by developing ballistic missiles and supporting terrorist groups”.

A foreign affairs minister of the UAE tweeted, "Iran interpreted the JCPOA as concurrence of its regional hegemony. An aggressive Iran was emboldened as a result & its ballistic missile program became both offensive & exportable".

Also from UAE, "Iran’s rhetoric & aggressive regional actions were the background to a flawed deal. The veneer of Tehran’s compliance contradicted its bellicose policies. President Trump’s decision is the correct one".

From Bahrain, "The Iranian nuclear agreement was born thin and lived paralyzed. It was an imperfect agreement that unleashed the hands of Iran to tamper with the security and stability of the region. And today he fell and thank God".



    Quote:

    I also find it funny, that your first approach, despite these high minded ideas in writing, was never to talk about this issue but to attack me. Never considering the potential limitations in that sort of approach. But I guess you rather go after the poster instead of admitting that Trump was very very wrong here.


My approach was such because I had no strong opinion regarding the US exiting the deal. But your hatred of Trump causes you to be blind to any consideration other than every action he takes is his new worst decision ever. And that exhibition of extreme bias is frustrating to see.

If your next response to me is anything like your previous few, you will accuse me of the opposite bias. As I've stated, there are plenty things I dislike which Trump has done. But I find it unnecessary to add to the never-ending anti-Trump posts on this board. But, I remind you of my offer....share with me five things you think Trump has done well, and I will return five criticisms. It will be interesting to switch sides, yes?




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