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Post By
Sumidor

Member Since: Sat Feb 25, 2017
In Reply To
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: US out of the Iran nuclear deal
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 at 01:06:05 am EDT (Viewed 764 times)
Reply Subj: Re: US out of the Iran nuclear deal
Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 at 12:29:37 pm EDT (Viewed 750 times)



    Quote:

      Quote:
      When Obama broke the agreement with Poland and the Czech Republic for the missile defense technology Bush had negotiated, you had no outrage. There is no post from you declaring that Obama is showing the world that the US is not trustworthy. From one Czech lawmaker, "If the Administration approaches us in the future with any request, I would be strongly against it." No post from you about the US going against its allies.



    Quote:
    Whataboutism, what you always go to as if previous mistakes (if it's even that) makes a current mistake okay. That's right, Obama weighed breaking the word of the U.S. to other considerations that Robert Gates, the person who recommended the missile defense to Bush in the first place and then changed his mind, explained here:



    Quote:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/opinion/20gates.html



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    In any case, that agreement is minor compared to the Iran deal which was agreed to by Iran, the U.S., and the other five most powerful nations on Earth.


Is your point that agreements made with less powerful nations are okay to break, but agreements made with more powerful nations should not be broken? I'm confused by you mention power rankings. An agreement with a foreign nation was exited in both cases. You can twist them any way you like, but it's hypocritical to claim one broken deal shatters world trust in the US, but braking a different one leaves trust intact.


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      Quote:
      Gaddafi gave up his WMD arsenal during the Bush administration, and agreed to let weapons inspectors into Libya to help dismantle its chemical and nuclear weapons programs. This was done with the understanding that those countries sending inspectors wouldn't then invade Libya and force him out of power once he disarmed. When the Obama administration did exactly that, where was your frustration? I've seen nothing from you exclaiming that such actions by the US discourage North Korea from halting its nuclear weapons program.



    Quote:
    This is reducing a very complex scenario into what you want it to be about. Gaddafi giving up his weapons has nothing to do with NATO strikes due to Libyan Civil War crimes.


Gaddafi giving up his nuclear arsenal had everything to do with the foreign invasion of Libya. The US and France would have been far less likely to invade Libya if Libya still had nuclear and chemical weapons. How many nuclear armed nations has France invaded lately?


    Quote:
    That's like saying that because Iran agreed not to produce nuclear weapons, they are immune to attack if they attacked Israel. It's nonsense.


No, it's not like saying that at all. I'm saying the exact opposite. There is an opinion that the example set with Gaddafi is that nuclear weapons are what's needed to prevent a foreign invasion. Rogue nations feel they need to have nuclear weapons to prevent the US from toppling them. Gaddafi playing along and giving up his weapons programs is what allowed the US and France among others to invade.



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      Very similar behaviors by Obama and Trump.



    Quote:
    They are only similar if you completely take out the context. None of what you say matters anyway because even if Obama was wrong, that doesn't make Trump right.


I've never said Obama was wrong. The constant replies to my posts when I defend any action by Trump, is that I am calling Obama wrong. This idea that you have to choose one person to idolize, and the other to despise is inaccurate. I never said Obama was wrong to exit the agreement with Poland. I'll make you the same suggestion I offered to bd2999....let's break our repeating pattern. If you tell me five things you think Trump has done well, I'll provide five criticisms.


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