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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To

Member Since: Sat Feb 25, 2017
Subj: Re: US out of the Iran nuclear deal
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 at 09:54:06 am CDT (Viewed 698 times)
Reply Subj: Re: US out of the Iran nuclear deal
Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 at 10:48:49 pm CDT (Viewed 766 times)

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        It goes so far beyond that and you know it! The guy made very valid points. Don't get pissed with him and bring up Obama because you don't like them! Trump is president now, And you know darn well these two deal are different for many reasons!!!!


        I think you are misunderstanding. I am certainly not pissed at anyone. There is no intent of anger in my post.


          I bring up Obama because he is the most recent former president. When comparing the actions of one president against another, and when speaking about people's reactions to decisions made by those presidents, it is helpful to compare contemporary examples.

    The only one drawing comparisons here is you. No one has questioned Trumps power to pull the US out of the agreement, which is why it's redundant to bring up Obama reversing Bush's policies towards Poland.

    What we're doing is trying to discuss the merits of Trump's decision to pull the US out of yet another bilateral agreement.


      Rather than make your case with the use of multiple exclamation points, why don't you provide examples of *why* the two deals are so different. What makes it valid for one president to unilaterally exit an executive agreement entered into by his predecessor, but it is invalid for a different president to do the same?

    A. Obama reversed Bush's plans for a missile defense system in Poland, but he didn't leave the region defenseless. Ships with similar (albeit, limited) capabilities were left in the area, not to mention, a defense system to protect the region was eventually deployed in Romania, as per Obama's plan when he nixed Bush's agreement.

    B. Some say that by mixing Bush's plan, Obama was capitulating to Russia. In actuality, it was a strategic maneuver to get Russia (one of Iran's only allies) to come to the table for the Iran nuclear deal.

    Now, why do you thing it was a good decision for Trump to break this bilateral agreement?

I've said that I haven't read the agreement itself, and I've said that any discussion in the news has been too politicized to trust 100%. So I'm not saying that I am in favor of exiting the deal. But what seems crazy to me is everyone on this board is so fired up, as if there is no other side to the discussion, and as if there are absolutely no valid reason to ever consider the deal was too flawed to let stand. So, to play advocatus diaboli, here are some criticisms of the deal...

1 - There seems to be credible evidence that Iran has been allowed to self inspect in Parchin, which is absolutely ridiculous.

2 - The whole deal was based on Iran being completely up front and honest about their nuclear program. It seems they were not, which violates conditions which were necessary for entering into the deal.

3 - Although Germany, the UK and France were against the US exiting the deal, those nations geographically closer to Iran are happy to see the deal ended. Bahrain, UAE, Israel, and Saudi Arabia for example. The leaders of those countries, who likely know Iran better than Emmanuel Macron, think the deal left Iran as a danger to the region. They praised Trump for ending what they considered a weak deal, and would prefer to see US sanctions restored.

One Saudi official stated "Iran used economic gains from the lifting of sanctions to continue its activities to destabilize the region, particularly by developing ballistic missiles and supporting terrorist groups”.

A foreign affairs minister of the UAE tweeted, "Iran interpreted the JCPOA as concurrence of its regional hegemony. An aggressive Iran was emboldened as a result & its ballistic missile program became both offensive & exportable".

Also from UAE, "Iran’s rhetoric & aggressive regional actions were the background to a flawed deal. The veneer of Tehran’s compliance contradicted its bellicose policies. President Trump’s decision is the correct one".

From Bahrain, "The Iranian nuclear agreement was born thin and lived paralyzed. It was an imperfect agreement that unleashed the hands of Iran to tamper with the security and stability of the region. And today he fell and thank God".

4 - The fact that the sunset clause eventually allows Iran to continue their nuclear program has some concerned that it will lead to other nations in the region racing to start nuclear programs of their own to prepare for an eventual nuclear Iran.

As I said...I haven't read the deal. But there do seem to be credible reasons why exiting the deal for a new one would be beneficial. And if Iran violated conditions which were necessary to open the deal to begin with, then Trump's actions may not be as unilateral as everyone on this board is claiming.


      This is a discussion board. Your post provides very little facts to discuss other than your fondness for punctuation. What are your thoughts on the tilde? I myself am a big fan.

Israel has nukes and freaked out the region. Other countries have used that as logic to get them in the past.

Your points are pretty darn weak. And none of them are grounds for leaving the agreement as stated in the agreements itself.

It is the desire to change the rules of the game as it is being played.

Not all of the agreed upon things lapse either. They would continue to be monitored.

And your first point is an outright falsehood.

Look Raist bunnies...
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