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Post By
Sumidor

Member Since: Sat Feb 25, 2017
In Reply To
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: Trump and the porn star
Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 at 02:32:14 pm CDT (Viewed 717 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Trump and the porn star
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 at 08:00:25 am CDT (Viewed 792 times)



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          Senator Ted Kennedy killed a woman, and was afterward consistently a Democrat hero, winning multiple re-elections.
        Uh, this was a huge, huge story at the time so you're wrong. All you've done is change the goal post from big media story to how supporters reacted. Different things.
      I think you misunderstood the entire point of my post. I was directing my replies to your premise that Trump voters have lowered a bar. My opening and closing statements referenced your supposed "bar", and each example was evidence that no bar ever existed. Trump is accused of having consensual sex with a porn star. Ted Kennedy was accused of killing a woman, and Clinton was accused of violently raping and beating women. Please understand, I am not defending anyone's actions. I'm pointing out the complete lunacy that you believe a bar has all of a sudden been lowered.



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    And you're still wrong. Ted Kennedy's aspirations for president were all but dashed after that incident.


But Ted Kennedy consistently was voted in as senator until his death in 2009. For over 40 years democrat voters didn't care that he killed a woman. I'm not attacking democrat voters, just showing that your claim of a high bar being lowered by Trump voters is farcical.


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    Guess who's still president now? The groper. The rape/assault accusations against Clinton only occurred significantly after his presidency. Many liberals have turned an unkind eye toward Bill Clinton in the Me Too movement.


Not true. Multiple accusations against Bill Clinton were made while he running for the presidency the first time, or during his first term. He was still re-elected. Showing that any imaginary bar was not set high to begin with.


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    Many liberals have turned an unkind eye toward Bill Clinton in the Me Too movement.


In other words, when neither Bill nor Hillary are running for office any longer. So, when it no longer matters as much. Funny that. No facts have changed, but only now do democrats consider that the violent rapes by Bill Clinton might have been wrong. Not a high bar.


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      But if you instead would prefer I address your other point, that the porn star is not making big waves in the news, that too is equally wrong. Stormy Daniels has been the topic of dozens and dozens of news reports, as has her lawyer. She had a big interview on CNN, she's been on SNL, the View, and Jimmy Kimmel. Her lawyer has been on Stephen Colbert, Don Lemon, Jake Tapper, The View, and other shows. Stormy Daniels has been on multiple covers of news papers. I'm not sure what more press these two can do for you to consider this a big story.



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    We will see if this is the biggest news story of the year. That was my criteria.



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        This is totally misleading. Clinton's $850,000 was a very public settlement over a sexual harassment lawsuit that was dismissed by the court. Trump tried to buy off a porn star's silence under the table.
      This is absolutely 100% false. The case was not dismissed by the court. Clinton settled out of court with Paula Jones for $850,000 so he wouldn't be brought up on charges. This was not dismissed by the court. You are simply wrong.



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    No, you are wrong.



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    https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-presidential-debate-fact-check/2016/10/bill-clinton-paula-jones-settlement-fine-229460



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    "The Jones suit, which went all the way to the Supreme Court, was ultimately dismissed by a judge on the grounds Jones could not show damages."


I'm honestly confused. Why would you pay someone to drop a lawsuit that had been dismissed? That doesn't make sense. Clinton paid Jones $850,000 to drop the case, as stated here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/jones111498.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/1999/01/13/us/clinton-settles-jones-lawsuit-with-a-check-for-850000.html

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/11/13/jones/


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      There is no bar. There never was a bar. You are just looking for a political weapon.



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    There is a bar unless you think a politician can do anything without consequences. William Campbell Preston Breckinridge lost reelection over an affair, Styles Bridges did not seek reelection after being outed as a homosexual and then shot himself. Jon Hinson resigned after being outted with a Library of Congress staff. Gary Hart lost a run for president due to his affair with Donna Rice. Ernie Konnyu lost reelection after sexual harassment claims. Arlan Stangeland lost reelection and retired from politics because of an affair with a lobbyist. A whole bunch of Republicans lost or resigned from office while attacking Clinton for his affair with Lewinsky only to be revealed as having affairs themselves; these included Bob Barr, Bob Livingston, Newt Gingrich, John Ensign, and David Vitter. Vitter lost in another election due to a revelation of involvement with prostitutes. After the Chandra Levy revelation, Gary Condit lost in the primaries while running for reelection. After lewdness in an airport public bathroom, Larry Craig announced his resignation, reversed himself, then did not seek reelection. Mark Foley resigned for sexual harassment of interns. Tim Mahoney, who replaced Foley, lost reelection due to an affair. John Edwards is now a pariah due to his affair. And of course Roy Moore lost because of his dalliances with minors. And are you really going to argue no bar was held against Anthony Weiner or Al Franken?


I'm saying that the bar was not high to begin with, and then lowered by Trump voters. I'm not claiming that there are absolutely no examples of politicians losing elections after sexual misconduct. However, many of those are in primaries, such as Gary Hart or John Edwards. Against members of their own party, voters will choose the cleaner one. But against an option of a politician from an opposing party, there are many examples of voters not caring. Not every time, but enough to dispel the notion of a high bar only now being lowered by Trump voters.


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    Your assertion that Americans have absolutely no standards when it comes to politicians is wrong.


Please show me where I said Americans have absolutely no standards? You are either purposefully twisting my words, or are entirely missing my point. Here is what I am saying...Given the option of a perfectly clean politician who is on the opposite side of issues that matter most to a voter, or a politician who might have had an affair while married, but who agrees on political issues that matter most to the voter, many voters will chose the politician who sides on their issues. It's not new, and it's not shocking.

For example, this quote is from writer Nina Burleigh, “I would be happy to give [Bill Clinton] a blowjob just to thank him for keeping abortion legal. I think American women should be lining up with their presidential kneepads on to show their gratitude for keeping the theocracy off our backs”? Meaning extramarital affairs are just fine, as long as he agrees with what's important to her. Not a high bar at all.


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    Do you think that if Donald Trump actually shot someone, nothing would come of it? That's the corollary of what you're saying.


I believe that if Trump shot someone that he would be arrested and go to jail.


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