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Post By
Sumidor

Member Since: Sat Feb 25, 2017
In Reply To
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: Trump and the porn star
Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 at 09:09:06 pm CDT (Viewed 660 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Trump and the porn star
Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 at 12:37:47 pm CDT (Viewed 669 times)



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      But Ted Kennedy consistently was voted in as senator until his death in 2009. For over 40 years democrat voters didn't care that he killed a woman. I'm not attacking democrat voters, just showing that your claim of a high bar being lowered by Trump voters is farcical.



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    And again, you mislead by not taking context into account. You say Ted Kennedy killed Mary Jo Kopechne as if it were homicide. It was a car accident. If you were driving a car and your wife died in an accident, even one for which you were at fault, would you label yourself a wife-killer? That's pretty absurd. He's not faulted for Kopechne's death so much as for not reporting it to authorities until 10 hours later. He pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident and received a two-month suspended jail sentence. A grand jury reviewed the case and did nor refer indictments on anything. But you make it sound like voters are forgiving Kennedy of murder.


He was drunk, drove the car into the water, and left her there. She didn't drown, but was alive in the car underwater, and suffocated when her air ran out while she was fully conscious. The car, and her body were discovered before Kennedy called the police 10 hours later. He left her there to die instead of doing anything which could have saved her. He passed multiple houses on his way back to his family, and there is no reason he could not have called police or other emergency services within minutes. The fact that you are playing semantics and equating this to any innocent car accident proves my point more then I ever could. You are making this incident seem far more innocent for one reason, Kennedy's political party aligns with your political beliefs more than the party opposing him. How high is that bar exactly?


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        Guess who's still president now? The groper. The rape/assault accusations against Clinton only occurred significantly after his presidency. Many liberals have turned an unkind eye toward Bill Clinton in the Me Too movement.
      Not true. Multiple accusations against Bill Clinton were made while he running for the presidency the first time, or during his first term. He was still re-elected. Showing that any imaginary bar was not set high to begin with.



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    Accusations were made against Clinton during his first run with nothing proven. If Clinton were raping women left and right as you insinuate, why hasn't he been prosecuted? Trump was caught admitting he groped women and being proud of it. He subsequently had the gall to deny that was him on the Hollywood Access tape AFTER he apologized for it!



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      In other words, when neither Bill nor Hillary are running for office any longer. So, when it no longer matters as much. Funny that. No facts have changed, but only now do democrats consider that the violent rapes by Bill Clinton might have been wrong. Not a high bar.



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    I know of no liberals who believe Clinton performed violent rapes and that should be overlooked. This is a straw argument.


You yourself said "Many liberals have turned an unkind eye toward Bill Clinton in the Me Too movement". Why now? No facts have changed regarding the accusations. So why turn an unkind eye now rather than five years ago? My point being, while the Clintons were active politically, this was viewed as "a right wing conspiracy". But now, you point out liberals have turned an unkind eye. Facts in the cases didn't change. The only thing that changed is the Clintons are no longer politically useful.


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      I'm honestly confused. Why would you pay someone to drop a lawsuit that had been dismissed? That doesn't make sense. Clinton paid Jones $850,000 to drop the case, as stated here:



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    Simple, Jones was appealing after it was dismissed.


Again you are playing semantics for those who align with your political beliefs. Both Clinton and Trump paid a woman to keep quiet, and go away with accusations. Just because Paula Jones appealed it afterward doesn't change that the pay off happened. You post with great concern about Trump's payoff, yet try to blur what happened with Clinton's payoff because of actions which happened after the fact. You further prove my point of what people will excuse when politicians agree with them.


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        Your assertion that Americans have absolutely no standards when it comes to politicians is wrong.
      Please show me where I said Americans have absolutely no standards? You are either purposefully twisting my words, or are entirely missing my point.



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    I am not. Your exact words, my emphasis, "There is NO bar. There NEVER was a bar. You are just looking for a political weapon." No bar means no standards.


Fair enough. I fell into hyberbole, which I sometimes do, and I need to be more careful with that. I thank you for pointing that out. I should have rather said the bar is not very high to begin with, or that it is a wildly fluctuating bar, sometimes with little logic.


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      For example, this quote is from writer Nina Burleigh, “I would be happy to give [Bill Clinton] a blowjob just to thank him for keeping abortion legal. I think American women should be lining up with their presidential kneepads on to show their gratitude for keeping the theocracy off our backs”? Meaning extramarital affairs are just fine, as long as he agrees with what's important to her. Not a high bar at all.



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    Just because you can name one person who doesn't have a high bar is not proof that most people don't. And the extramarital affair alone isn't the big deal with Trump, it's the extramarital affair only a year after Trump married Melania and then having two going on at the same time right after the birth of their only son. And then paying off the women. And then repeatedly lying about it to the public.


Clinton had multiple affairs, and lied about them as well. The two cases are close enough to show that people who share similar political beliefs of a politician will sometimes excuse bad behavior. And that's my point. It's not new to Trump voters. The bar has not been lowered specifically by Trump voters.


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        Do you think that if Donald Trump actually shot someone, nothing would come of it? That's the corollary of what you're saying.
      I believe that if Trump shot someone that he would be arrested and go to jail.



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    Obviously in the context of what we are discussing I'm referring to approval from his supporters.


It's pointless to discuss what "his supporters" would do, as if they have a single mentality. And it's more pointless to suppose what that single mentality would do in a wildly hypothetical scenario.


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