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Post By
Sumidor

Member Since: Sat Feb 25, 2017
In Reply To
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: US out of the Iran nuclear deal
Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 at 12:59:12 am EDT (Viewed 518 times)
Reply Subj: Re: US out of the Iran nuclear deal
Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 at 02:28:31 pm EDT (Viewed 511 times)



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      Similar to what I have said in other posts in this thread, it is important to consider that someone who disagrees with you has valid reasons for their belief. I do understand your concerns. You think the deal was working to prevent Iran from further developing nuclear weapons. You think without the deal, Iran is free to get a nuclear bomb quicker. It's a valid concern. But the other side to the argument is more than simply "Trump makes up a bunch of lies". There are concerns, equally valid to yours, that Iran will continue to develop nuclear weapons in sites kept off-limits by confidential side agreements. There are concerns that Iran's restored economy is funneling billions into state sponsored terrorism, and that the deal should have addressed that. There are concerns that the deal which was in place was simply a 10 year waiting game which we can't afford.



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    It was really a 15 year waiting game, and we can afford it because that is precisely the time needed for Iran to change its ways as its Iranian Revolution hardliners die off as they are all in their late 70s and 80s now.



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        It's your opinion that executive agreements should not be trusted. They can be trusted insofar as presidents abide by them. The more the U.S. breaks them, the less they can be trusted. The more the U.S. abides by them, the more they can be trusted.
      That's what treaties are for. An executive agreement is not a treaty. An executive agreement should not be kept in place if the current executive thinks it is harmful to US interests. The US has treaties to do what you're looking for. The US president is not given the power to enter into binding agreements for a reason.



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    It's all besides the point. Obama would have made it a treaty if he could have, but it was never going to pass a Republican Congress.


It's not besides the point at all. If the American people voted in "a Republican Congress", that means enough Americans were against Obama's agenda and his political ideas. That is one of the precise reasons we have different branches of government, each with specific and limited powers. If a president cannot get a treaty or bill passed through congress, there is a good chance that many Americans don't want that treaty or bill passed. The ability to ratify treaties and turn a bill into law is in the hands of congress for a reason. A more rigorous debate is forced when anything is in front of congress, and congress is meant to be more responsive to the people directly. To say that a treaty "was never going to pass a Republican Congress" is absolutely no reason for any president to do a run-around congress and enter into a executive order which has very little legal weight.

Also, you clipped the part of my post in which I asked a direct question. I made it clear the question was not rhetorical, and I believe it is relevant to much of this conversation. I will copy/paste it again below.

Here's a question, which I think gets to the heart of the matter. Not a rhetorical question, it's one that I am asking you to answer. Do you think the US President should have the authority to enter into legally binding treaties with foreign nations? Is that power something you trust in the hands of one person, or is it something which is better kept in congress where a more rigorous debate is forced?

Do you want Donald Trump to be able to enter into any agreement he wants with other nations, and they are legally binding for all future administrations to follow? I don't. The constitution wasn't written with the most perfect person in mind always holding the office of the president. It was written knowing that the office would be held by flawed men (and Trump is a very flawed man).




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