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Ancient One 

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,925
In Reply To

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,233
Subj: Re: Religion - your beliefs?
Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 at 10:25:48 pm CDT (Viewed 537 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Religion - your beliefs?
Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 at 08:26:35 am CDT (Viewed 638 times)

First of all, the big bang and the inside of a black hole are two different situations. The general consensus - and the one I agree with - is that the universe didn't begin as a singularity.

    The paragraph isn't saying that because it's the next paragraph that does.

No, it doesn't. It's talking specifically about ring singularities, which ARE more complex events to form. And I don't agree with her assessment of it.

The math tells us that's what's almost certainly happening inside a rotating black hole. There is debate about it as there are quantum effects that may prevent such a singularity from happening, but no one's sure about what effects - if any, quantum effects are often counter-intuitive - they'd actually have.

    The way you decided to answer: "We don't even know what's inside a black hole" frustrates me because it was overly simplistic of a complicated matter and you resorted to cheap sleight of hand.

I think you're trying to make it seem more complicated than it actually is because you didn't want to be corrected. Sure, there's debate over some aspects of black holes, but they tend to be pretty technical, and you're using those debates to distract from the argument.

Put simply, a black hole is a region of space where matter has collapsed in on itself to form a very powerful gravity well.

Whether there's a singularity at the heart of a black hole, or as near a singularity that makes no never mind, we KNOW what's inside a black hole.

    Clearly, what's inside is being debated and unknown from the link already provided, and this one also makes that evident:

Dude, with all respect to the journalists, you've picked two articles by journalists. I'm not saying they're completely inaccurate, but they have a job to do, and part of that job is to make subjects seem more mysterious and exciting than they actually are.

What's actually going on here is this: We've worked out what happens under these conditions (very high gravity) using general relativity (which predicted black holes in the first place). The math works, and it tells us what's happening in there.

There are physicists working on things like quantum gravity. The work is far from complete, and may not be workable at all, but IF they're correct, then under quantum gravity singularities couldn't happen. But it's a big if. That's where there's some debate.

    Although I could spend time pointing out that the existence of black hole singularities is questionable in and of itself, I was more interested in the nature of singularities assuming they exist. Is what's inside physical? We don't know until we have a new scientific theory because, by definition, the laws of physics as we know them break down past the event horizon.

That's seems like a tough one. Can a point with no dimensions be said to exist? My take on it is: It's interacting with the space around it - yes, it exists.

    Yeah, maybe. Didn't stop Carl Sagan from entertaining the barest possibility of worm holes, though. Supporting my original claim: "We don't even know what's inside a black hole."

Indeed it didn't. Nor should it stop anyone from examining the subject. Wormholes (outside of a black hole) are a possibility that need looking in to.

By the way, Carl Sagan was another one that lots of Christians predicted would break down and pray on his deathbed.

He proved them - and you - wrong.

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