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Post By
The Mandarin

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,072
In Reply To
Late Great Donald Blake 

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,511
Subj: Re: Yes basically that's it, and we should be realistic.
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 at 09:07:16 pm EST (Viewed 274 times)
Reply Subj: Yes basically that's it, and we should be realistic.
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 at 08:12:17 pm EST (Viewed 275 times)

Previous Post

Specifically realistic about how parts of the liberal cultural are laundering what would otherwise be seen as profound corporate overreach and the obscene privatization of public institutions (or the private replacement of public institutions,) by Twitter, Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc. because it's being used primarily (as of yet) against their political enemies like Trump and antivaxxers and so on.

TLDR version: capitalism gradually causes all the soft power to be gradually accumulated by corporations. This soft power allows them to squelch free speech and most other rights without technically making them illegal.

LGDB:  Yes basically.  I'm on the fence about whether capitalism itself would need to be overcome entirely before fighting for reformist measures in the mean time like breaking up massive monopolist companies.  I don't think those have to be a one or the other sort of thing though.  And I think it's a silly position to say until the revolution there's nothing worth trying to change.  In fact, I think quite the opposite.  Not that you're saying this, I just mention it because I think it's a naturally emerging question.

Are you familiar with the Iron Law of Oligarchy?

LGDB:  Yes, but there's a few things to mention here.  One is that a tendency doesn't equal inevitability, so even if organizations have a tendency to centralize power (as capital has a tendency towards concentration) or a tendency to form insular rulership classes  it doesn't mean that a political situation can't exist that resists this tendency.  We don't want to go so far as to say well there's always a temptation for government officials to become corrupted, let's then not have government officials, what say you?

And secondly, the person that coined this term and developed this theory was Robert Michels (I had to look up his name on Wikipedia), a man who literally joined the Italian fascists, and he would have plenty of reasons to want to delegitimize the attempt of democratically composed socialist government.  

But I will say, if we're just taking this at face value, we absolutely should be concerned with the possibility of distinct class formations emerging out of even a post revolutionary situation.  

---the late great Donald Blake

In capitalism, the first winners of the
capitalist race work to shut the door to the top behind them,
favoring their families and golfing buddies, creating monopolies and
oligopolies gradually funneling all the money and soft power to
themselves, and allowing them to bribe politicians to acquire
indirect hard power. They then become feudal lords in all but name.

In communism, those bureaucrats in
charge of distributing the wealth favor their families and golfing
buddies. They then require ever more amounts of policing power to
enforce this disparity, resulting in a constant seesaw where the
goods given to the people get ever smaller, requiring ever more
policing power to prevent a rebellion from resulting, resulting in
even less money getting distributed to the people, requiring even
more money be given to the policing needed to prevent rebellion,
until the country is just a feudal system in which the Feudal Lords
are called bureaucrats.

Ultimately the core problem isn't
capitalism or communism, but tribalism. That is to say, the natural
tendency of human beings to favor their families and friends over the
good of the nation. Fighting against this tendency requires a massive
amount of both careful systemic design, and vigilance.

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