Quote:No! I made it clear that the rock theist in my example does NOT believe that the rock has divine or supernatural qualities. For no good reason, they just think the rock is “God”. So, I was analogizing this to how a pantheist thinks the universe is “God”: it all boils down to nothing more than a euphemism.
Then what makes the rock 'god'?
They MUST believe there's something different about it, yes? Something that sets it apart from other rocks. Otherwise, it's just a rock.
Quote:I’m not making any claims about the rationality of supernatural belief. Do you get that? I know you hate religion, but stop hijacking an argument just so you can have your say and remind everyone how you think supernaturalism is foolishness. This whole argument is about naturalism. Pantheists do not believe in the supernatural. You hate Jesus. I get it.
You don't get it at all. I don't hate Jesus. Why would I? I have no reason to. I look at Jesus from a historical perspective. You're conflating my view on Jesus with my view on religion, and that's a mistake.
And yes, I know this is about naturalism. But that's your second mistake. Pantheists DO believe in the supernatural. The only difference is one of separation. Is god part of the universe, or does it stand apart from it? Here's the Encyclopedia Brittanica definition (But you can find the definition anywhere):
"Both “pantheism” and “panentheism” are terms of recent origin, coined to describe certain views of the relationship between God and the world that are different from that of traditional theism. As reflected in the prefix “pan-” (Greek pas, “all”), both of the terms stress the all-embracing inclusiveness of God, as compared with his separateness as emphasized in many versions of theism. On the other hand, pantheism and panentheism, since they stress the theme of immanence—i.e., of the indwelling presence of God—are themselves versions of theism conceived in its broadest meaning. Pantheism stresses the identity between God and the world, panentheism (Greek en, “in”) that the world is included in God but that God is more than the world".
Theist and pantheistic views are similar in that they take something natural (The universe) and tack a supernatural belief (god) on to it.
Both are different to the atheistic view, which does not require a god of any sort.
Do pantheists believe in the supernatural? Ancient One says yes, I say no.