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Ancient One 

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,927
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Member Since: Thu Nov 11, 2021
Subj: Re: LGBD, please clarify this dispute
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 at 05:01:01 pm EST (Viewed 203 times)
Reply Subj: Re: LGBD, please clarify this dispute
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 at 04:14:27 pm EST (Viewed 192 times)

    And so, *head scratch*, because astronomers (and now you're commingling physicists) are LESS RELIGIOUS than medical and biological scientists (which is a bigger scope than just evolutionary biologists), astronomers are perhaps better than evolutionary biologists at understanding religious thought?


Yes, because as I said, sometimes standing apart and having an over view gives you a better perspective.

    The people in Roman times thought the world was flat, that they lived in a dome, and that the gods ruled above the dome. Their understanding of the universe wasn't even solar system size, it was planetary! So, relative to their understanding, these small handful of relatively all-powerful gods collectively created everything.

Another error. They didn't think the world was flat in Roman times. They'd known for centuries that it was a globe. Eratosthenes even worked out the circumference of the earth to a surprising degree of accuracy in the second century BCE.

Your history is almost as poor as your theology.

    And your Adam and Eve story is another face palm. You're claiming that God had to call out their name because he didn't know where they were, yet knew of their sin: that he wasn't playing dumb when he asked where they were. *Chuckle*

Yes. He didn't know where they were. He didn't know who'd told them they were naked. Your error here is in thinking that the author of Genesis 1 had the same idea of a god that many modern people do. It's extremely clear from the text he didn't.


      The pantheist in the quote even used the term 'divine Presence'. Do you think the universe has a divine presence? No? Well, THEY do.

    They think it's both divine and natural. In other words, like I've been trying to tell you, it's all gibberish because it's a contradiction! They are stupid and unworthy to be taken seriously. You wouldn't listen to a crazy person's rationale, would you? So why are you listening to what pantheists say? They don't believe in "God", it's all just smoke and mirrors.

Ah. Okay. Well, lets run with that. Jesus too was divine and natural. A human with divine qualities. So Jesus is gibberish too, right? And those who believe that this contradiction of a being are all stupid? Yes?


      Nicely moved goalposts. We were debating whether they believe in the supernatural or not.

    They don't believe in the supernatural. Everything in the universe is natural to them, known and unbeknownst. And if they believe in 'magic', it would be natural and something we haven't learned enough to not call it magic.

So how do you differentiate that from any other form of supernatural thinking? The god of the bible might have been a super powerful alien from another universe who just created ours on a slow day. Ghosts may be nothing more than images recorded on to their environment and a few unexplained natural phenomena.

That's the trouble with magical thinking: Anyone can apply the same kind of thinking to YOUR belief system too. In that respect, they're all the same.

    Unless these Shintos believe that their natural (not supernatural) "god(s)" are universal in scale than some planetary Zeus-like god; and have conscious, then they don't believe in "God": the Alpha and the Omega, the Supreme Being, the First and the Last, the all-powerful, the all-knowing, and the infinite.

    And if scale doesn't matter, then even the rock in my front yard can be "God". And if you agree that this is preposterous, then maybe you'll finally join me and admit that my position is the most rationale: that pantheists don't believe in "God" and are too irrational to be taken seriously.

Oh I agree it's preposterous.

But it's not preposterous to understand there may be people who THINK a rock is god. It's not preposterous to understand that there are people who believe in the supernatural.

It's preposterous to me (And other atheists) that the universe was created in 6 days by an abstract being who has ten special commandments for you and is happy to condemn you to a place of eternal agony if you displease him... because he loves you. Completely, utterly preposterous.

But I absolutely understand that there are many people who believe it to be true with all their hearts.