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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Member Since: Thu Nov 11, 2021
Subj: Re: The World Wakes up to a Land War in Europe
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 at 06:38:15 am EST (Viewed 273 times)
Reply Subj: Re: The World Wakes up to a Land War in Europe
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 at 01:44:20 pm EST (Viewed 314 times)

    - He should (actually, already should have) built a coalition of freedom fighting democratic nations

That already exists, it is called NATO, and they have been increasing troop presence on Eastern European members for a while now. They have also sent warships and planes to that area.

They are clearly willing to engage in combat if a member nation's border is violated by the Russian military.

That invalidates this sentence of yours:

"Biden, and the European nations, are sniveling cowards."

However, Ukraine is not a member of NATO, they turned down membership in 2010.

In late 2020, Zelensky did say he had a a goal of joining NATO, but as of yet

IN January of this year, the Biden State Department also okayed Ukraine's neighbors to arm them with US manufactured weapons such as anti-armor missiles.

That is on top of the Biden administrating sending $200 million dollars worth of weapons, including missiles, on its own.

These very public actions are not the act of someone sniveling, you just have an assumption and are working backwards to meet it.

It is worth noting that Russia formally asked the US to stop arming Ukraine, and they refused. Interrupt that however you see fit.

    The coalition has no intention of overthrowing the Russian government, only to stop their invasion.

Because there is no way Putin could convince his people those are lies, and use it to drum up patriotic fervor, right?

If they are only in Ukraine, even mentioning over throwing Russia, even to say you are not, is a bad idea.

    Everybody here should state what they think Biden should do.

I would not be opposed to sending troops into Ukraine. Low levels at first, with potential increase. Too many at once does not say "we want to keep you out," it says "we want a war."

It is not like you can't park troops across the border in Poland, and wait.

It also needs to be remembered that over the past 60 years, we have a pretty bad track record of using our military directly. Three wars that stretched over a decade, and one of them causing a power vacuum that led to the rise of ISIS, and genocide.

That is not even to say anything of the poor backing of Regan in the 80s that trained Bin Laden, and helped out Hussein as he fought Iran.

That all has to be weighed against any military, and the fact that Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush II, Obama, Trump and Biden, all caused major failures, and long term problems for the US.

It does not mean you can't send in troops. It sure as Hell doe not mean that you can't send aid and arm them. It does mean you have to be smart about the actions.

I don't think Putin is crazy enough to go nuclear, as some do. However, I do think he is sociopath enough to throw away countless Russian lives to antagonize the US, and keep them tied up for years. I think if he sees it as a legit war against The WEST in any form, he will go conscription.

However, your whole question of "fighting or sanctions" is ridiculous.

Logic of saying fight, while claiming you want to prevent conflict aside, there is no reason you can't do both.

Why could you not have troops on, and cut off monetary supply? Aside from the obvious, aside from the obvious fueling anti-American sentiment.

Which brings up a more important point, that made me think harder on the Ukraine. There a protests in Russia. The Russian people were threatened with arrest on TV for protesting the actions, and still came out in notable numbers.

It is one of the first signs of real numbers in the country trying to break from Putin. Whatever happens, this needs to be encouraged, and grown. Whether that is our own form of cyber warfare getting images of Russia's actions or other forms, it is a good idea.

to summarize:
-Fine with using troops, as long as it is done intelligently.
-Fine with potential increase, when warranted.
-Arming Ukraine is important.
-Sanctions can be used in concert to cause double pain
-Growing the resistance core against Putin needs to be looked in, for long term gains. Especially since his final term ends in two years, and that resistance could stop him from monkeying around with things to stay in power.

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