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Post By
Late Great Donald Blake 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,511
In Reply To
bd2999 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: I'm not excusing anyone's behavior... including our own.
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 at 12:20:56 pm EST (Viewed 277 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Hey I know...
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 at 01:07:45 pm EST (Viewed 283 times)

Previous Post

I do not agree. That is Russia and China's view too but one of Putin's goals appears to be to reform the soviet union. NATO being there or not does not change that or excuse behavior.



First of all in terms of imperialism if you're entertaining some fiction where the US is somehow a good actor and Russia and China are worse actors, I have a lot of world history to introduce you to. So any moral calculus you're operating with built on the notion that whatever the Russians or the Chinese want is inherently bad is incoherent. Especially if you hold the US to the same standards.

Second we can't control Putin's actions. We can react to them to various effects, but primarily we have influence over our own actions. There is no excuse for the existence of NATO. As the global hegemon we would have had the same power to put the same sanctions in place. What benefit does it possibly serve except to aggravate tensions unnecessarily. I mean the idea that we have this multinational alliance against a single nation, despite the Soviet Union being disband is bound to make the Russians a bit paranoid, don't you think?

And let me go ahead and disabuse you of any US State Department myths: Putin isn't trying to recreate the Soviet Union. That's are no plans of world domination, so far as we know. Clearly he has a nationalist streak and is specifically interested in a unified relationship with those nations who he believes are part of some greater Russkiy Mir, but you'll notice he's not annexing Belarus.
Recreating the Soviet Union? Russia has a smaller GDP than Spain for God's sake. But it does make sense that they'd prefer not to have a US vassal state directly to their West, one where we've encouraged NO guarantees that Ukraine will never join NATO. Putin has literally articulated this as a red line since 2007. So what possible good does NATO serve--much less not denying Ukrainian membership into NATO--outside of servicing the needs of the military industrial complex?


And NONE of the above in anyway excuses Putin's actions. It's fundamentally wrong to invade other nations unilaterally (you know, like our MO), and against international law to unilaterally decide the borders of neighboring states. But diplomacy actually means recognizing the legitimate grievances of the the enemy, not just summarily denying them because they're the bad guy.

cheers,
--- the late great Donald Blake




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