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Post By
bd2999 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Rehzon

Location: Red Forest, Chernobyl
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: Ukraine = Nazi Wonderland?
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 at 05:05:58 pm EDT (Viewed 131 times)
Reply Subj: Ukraine = Nazi Wonderland?
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 at 11:57:38 am EDT (Viewed 143 times)



    Quote:

    The United States and UKRAINE REJECTED a UN petition condemning the glorification of nazism. Not just once, but in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021.


I mean there is a bit more to it than that.

The US has had a consistent explanation of free speech. And I would argue that neo Nazi's and other right wing sort of groups with similar sympathies are a problem in the US, but at least it is somewhat consistent with holding up the First Amendment. Even if I am not sure I agree with it, but I remember seeing Nazi's at parks or on campuses yelling stuff. They were ignored or heckled back most of the time, but it has been the way for ages. All of that is supported by explanations by the US in explaining their votes that they oppose Nazi's and their ideology. The most recent one resists partly because Russia has used it as an excuse even in 2021.

For Ukraine, their history is complicated (so is that of the US historically, even with relation to the Nazi's in the lead up to WW2 and after), but Putin's ideas of deNazification in the context he is using are made up. Same with his claims of genocide in the Donbas.

Does not mean there is not some grounds for it. As Ukrainian history has lots of important figures with ties to the Nazi's or actively fighting for them. Not to mention antisematic policies. And there have been problems with the modern government cheering some of those historical individuals without the full context (sometimes). Some monuments to these nationalists have also been built. In some respects they may be akin to the US building monuments to Confederate war generals. Granted, not facism, but many were built with clear racial intention. And there is often a contingent of grow neo Nazi's within Ukraine.

I am curious to see if there is any information about the growth in Ukraine vs other countries as far right parties with similar ideologies to neo Nazi's have become more common in Europe and to be frank over the world with varying degrees of success.

To your original point though, the US and Ukraine are not Nazi wonderlands, unless one is very generous with terms.

Ukraine had problems before Russia invaded them, but none of it warranted a Russian invasion. As most of them appear to be tacked on justifications (although ones that Russia has claimed for a while in some cases). Some make more sense than others (not wanting Ukraine to joining the EU or NATO) others seem nothing more than nationalism and harking back to WW2 ideology of fighting evil, which they have declared Ukraine to be (at least their government). And Putin has loved to harken back to the Soviet's role as savior in WW2 for various political gains.




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