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Post By
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Late Great Donald Blake 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,462
Subj: Re: Warning: A Very Long Read
Posted: Wed May 11, 2022 at 12:06:02 am EDT (Viewed 111 times)
Reply Subj: yeah I'm not so sure about cancel culture being a far left thing or if it even matters.
Posted: Mon May 09, 2022 at 09:32:36 pm EDT (Viewed 117 times)



    Quote:
    The far left pushes cancel culture? I'm not sure about that. As a matter of fact I've found that the sort of centrist corporate "progressives" seem to really love the whole identity politics uber alles as much as anyone else. So for instance when Joe Rogan was on the chopping block (or seemed like it might be) it was more the CNN, NYT, Twitter blue check crowd that were pushing that than say your average DSA member. I don't think it's hard to find extreme unyielding progressives on the far left, no question, but I think you're just as likely to be "canceled" by a "resistance lib" whose whole politics revolve around how bad Trump is as you are a dyed in the wool Marxist.


Not really. James Carville, who embodies the centrist corporate left of center view, abhors it and is one of the most outspoken against it from the well, relative left. I will admit using “far left” is too vague. Wokeness and cancel culture is more a concern of the academic left, and as such has lots of rules and jargon that many laypeople can’t make sense of from using plural pronouns for non-binaries to the appropriateness of “Latinx”. How much does the academic left overlap with the far left? Well, more than either overlaps with Carville or Bill Maher or Meghan Daum or Lawrence Summers and both groups are to the left of them. (My own position is not that pushing this kind of change is wrong, but that it is not well thought out and certainly executed poorly. I won’t get into the specifics of that here because it’s kind of besides the point and would make an already long post much longer.)


    Quote:
    If you want to know what the Democrats are facing the backlash, perhaps woke scolds on the internet have something to do with that, BUT... that kind of thing is only decisive in a world where Democrats also totally fail to improve the lives of the people who vote for them. Yes, the Republicans are obstructionist, and from my perspective have worse politics, but you need to look no further than the states and cities dominated by Democratic politics that have record setting inequality, homelessness, Draconian labor practices, and so on to understand that this isn't purely a matter of the naïve script that "we'd love to help the working class, but those durn MAGA douches?" ain't gonna cut the mustard. The Democratic Party has done plenty themselves to systematically fail the country. And it won't be because the "far left" was so crazy. As if somehow some blue haired Antifa warrior from Portland could somehow damage the Democratic Party's reputation more than failing to raise people wages, to lower drug prices, to offer access to affordable healthcare, to relieve crippling debt ever could or to end foreign interventionism.


I think you overestimate the degree to which people are rational and think this through. If people actually appreciated Democrats for what they did, then Clinton’s very prosperous run as president would have led to Gore becoming the next president, not Bush (or if you believe that Bush stole the presidency, at least it wouldn’t have been so close as to come down to 500 or so votes). Bush was disastrous as president between the Iraq War and its lack of WMDs to Hurricane Katrina to his term ending with the start of the Great Recession. Then Obama led a recovery back to prosperity. He passed ACA and gave 20+ million people access to healthcare who did not have it before (mostly through Medicaid expansion). Was there appreciation for Democrats? No. Voters couldn’t be bothered to show up in the midterms and Obama lost Congress. Then Trump got elected, got impeached twice, and mishandled the worst pandemic in a century.

I totally agree that Democrats have not improved lives nearly as well as they could have, but Democrats have at least done it better than Republicans, and if your premise is correct, that should keep them in office at least a little longer. It doesn’t. Instead, both the presidency and the Congress switch roughly every 4 to 8 years.

Politically I agree with the far left more than the center left. Above all though, I am pragmatic, while the far left is too idealistic and seemingly blind to that idealism. I was with Bernie Sanders more than Hillary Clinton, but Bernie lost in the primary. He presented his ideas. Hillary presented hers. She won the primary. I was disappointed, but at that point, the Democrats needed to be fully on board to keep Trump from becoming president. I’m friends with some in the DSA who would not vote for Hillary no matter what. Quite a few on the far left took that position, and if I recall correctly, that included you, although I don’t know if you ultimately stuck by that decision. Trump won by about 70,000 votes across the Midwest. That’s not a lot. It could have easily gone the other way if more people voted instead of refusing to vote for Clinton on principle despite despising Trump. The result has severely damaged the country, not least because the Supreme Court would now have a super majority of liberals instead of conservatives due to Trump’s 3 picks. That Texas abortion law would have been struck down so fast and we wouldn’t even be talking about Roe getting overturned.

Democrats try to win over working class voters by talking about job training programs. Republicans actually win them over by telling them falsely that Mexicans are stealing their jobs so they will build a wall to keep them out. You seem to think many Trump voters are looking for some massive status quo change giving them economic justice and that they would have voted for Bernie Sanders had they been given a chance when they actually voted for Trump because they don’t want minorities becoming the majority, they want guns, lots of guns, but most of all, they want to own the libs, because they think liberals condescend to them. That’s where Trump excelled because he would say anything to troll the opposition, regardless that Trump could produce anything whatsoever policy-wise, which he pretty much couldn’t.

In many red states, having a D next to your name is a kiss of death at the polls. Somehow you think having “socialist” next to your name is better? For these voters, that’s even worse. I was born and raised in Arkansas. I grew up around these people. If I recall correctly, you live in Texas, so you should know better too, but I think you’re in Austin, the bluest patch of Texas. Biden passed a $1 trillion infrastructure and jobs act and was attempting a $3.5 trillion Build Back Better bill, before compromise brought it down to $2.2 trillion, which is how it passed the House. People forget that it’s half way through. That’s monumental social spending. Where are all the people on the right who want the economic and health benefits in this bill that include lots of the stuff you say people want? Polls show roughly half the country opposes it. So Democrats failing here is not for lack of trying. The voters simply didn’t give them enough of a Congressional majority to overcome the existence of a Manchin and a Sinema.

So you think people won’t vote for Democrats because they haven’t done enough for them. Trump failed in his promises left and right. He failed to repeal ACA. He failed to build a wall. He didn’t lock Hillary up. He failed to lower the national debt but instead did the opposite. Nearly half a million Americans died from Covid under his watch. So many Republicans STILL worship Trump while excommunicating far right Republicans like Liz Cheney because she opposes him. Kevin McCarthy still kowtows to him. MAGA voters are still enthusiastic about him despite Trump achieving squat legislatively except for a tax cut that ballooned the deficit.

This isn’t because Democrats failed to improve the economy. Again, Clinton and Obama did exactly that compared to Bush I and Bush II. It’s because Trump and the Republican Party are now the alternative to racial justice and gender equality. They are the party of resentment. Anything resembling wokeness or social justice or cancel culture on that behalf just enhances that resentment of the left even as the right engages in its own cancel culture. One just has to look at McCarthyism and the Red Scare to know where the right has stood on cancel culture.




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