Personally I think much of this is trying to sublimate the political disagreement by making it personal. We're not talking about the issues we're criticizing one another's... let's call it... style. Was there something specific that you thought I said that was out of line, or you just don't like my overall vibes? If it's the former let's talk about it. If it's the latter let's just say you and I don't go to each other's birthday party then?
You are in no way a necessary evil. I ma sure you think you are, because it makes you feel special and justifies your behavior, but you are in no way a necessary evil.
LGDB: You're correct. First... it was a joke. You know? Levity? And to be clear, it was responding the an ad hominem. I'll allow myself the latitude. You are right about one thing... I'm neither necessary or evil.
What justifies my behavior as concerns the board is that it's firmly in keeping with board rules. What makes me special is my sick dance moves and lovely singing voice.
You are part of the bipartisan rot in this country, where it is ore about proving how smart you think you are, to how not wrong. I say not wrong, because people concerned with being right tend to be better at interacting with people. It is about your ego.
LGDB: wrong. As a matter of fact I have no idea what bipartisan has to do with anything here. I'm not anymore elated with the bipartisan thing than anyone else. As a matter of fact, as a frustrated leftist, I'd say the fact that things are only construed according to partisan lines is kind of a recurrent issue with the board. If you're general point is that we should all be nicer to one another, fair enough. In the mean time I'll just pay people the respect that they can handle their ideas being criticized without feeling personally attacked. And to that end, if anyone does feel like I insulted them they should by all mean message me, and I'll hear them out and probably apologize. But if you as a none personally aggrieved person just don't like my bedside manner, you're welcome to give me a negative Yelp review I guess.
If you were even 1/8 as smart as you think you are, you would realize that this college sophomore home for break, trying to piss off his conservative dad persona does not make people particularly receptive to your pint of view. In fact, it entrenches them more inn their view, and makes them less likely to take your viewpoint under consideration.
LGDB: ooooh, don't hurt yourself here lol Where did this nonsense about me thinking I'm all that smart come from? I doubt the muscle between my ears is any stronger than anyone else's. And whatever the case, I'm not really sure how this affects anything? IF I thought I was the smartest person in the room exactly what would that change for you? I have to assume based on this reply you think you know something or other I don't. You have some wisdom or insight I've neglected? But none of that has any bearing on the political discussion we were having. Like I say, I think this is mostly just sublimation.
And as a matter of fact, I sort of mention over and over again in this thread how basically unoriginal my ideas are. It's not me being clever, it's me articulating an almost boringly typical left view. That just happens to be a in short supply around here, and for a lot of people here they're not overly acquainted with it. I think that's pretty apparent, and don't really see much harm in suggesting the obvious. But... I'll let you know when I get fancy.
In the mean time I'll take your rhetorical strategy under advisement, but aren't you basically doing the same here? Is this "put me in my place" dress down supposed to convince ME of something? I appreciate the criticism, and you're welcome anytime, but I'll be honest with you I think if we really bore down on this, you're going to find we have some greater disagreements than how brusque one should be in a political discussion. As far as I'm concerned it takes all kinds. You want to be massaging and accommodating? By all means, knock yourself out. There's a place for that. I'll be direct and even risk being confrontational because there's a place for that too.
So... if you are not trying to convert people to your idea, then you are just doing it to stroke your own ego. A common practice on the internet,and society as a whole. It is kind of why are discourse is breaking down.
LGDB: As far as I'm concerned this misses the point. I'm making a rational argument openly and directly, and I'm not being equivocal while I do it. And while it's true that might not change some people's minds--namely the people I'm arguing with whose ideological commitments, political environments, and own egos makes that unlikely in the first place--it MAY convince others who are following the discussion. For that matter, in this discussion bd299 ACTUALLY DID amend his position, or at least he said he'd consider it after doing more research about the matter. Believe you me, it's not because he's so taken with me as a drinking buddy.
And I'd also argue perhaps that some of that conversational breakdown that you're bemoaning isn't being helped by a culture of a mutual dialectic of edginess and outrage, of owning people and of weaponizing sensitivity. How bout I'll try not to go out of my way to offend you, and you find your stiff upper lip in the middle of this conversation where we're talking about adult things that pretty much suck?
If the necessary evil is common, and doing harm. It is not necessary, just evil. Though it may be a banal form.
LGDB: oh I think there's probably enough banality to spread around here lol
I don't think you started this thread because you wanted to know what was going on, or why people were not posting. I think you missed arguing, and having an undeserved sense of superiority.
LGDB: And why can't it be both? Why do I have to be legitimately curious OR argumentative? I AM curious what the liberals on this board are making of the current economic and political situation, and specifically if it's challenging their ideological commitments. I don't know how 'opener' this open book could get. I find if you want to understand people's ideology a lot of the time you have to challenge it. You might find you get better results with appealing to people egos and mutual stroking, but I don't think it quite does the trick. How effective is it? I'm not sure, but I've learned a great deal from it. And as far as if I've missed arguing. Well that would sort of presuppose I ever stop, right? lol
---the late great Donald Blake
P.S. Despite all that, tell you what... you can still come to my birthday.