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Post By
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Late Great Donald Blake 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,563
Subj: Re: So if you agree the Dems aren't doing enough, how is glowing approval going to encourage them to do better?
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 at 09:31:21 am EDT (Viewed 248 times)
Reply Subj: So if you agree the Dems aren't doing enough, how is glowing approval going to encourage them to do better?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 at 04:11:21 pm EDT (Viewed 267 times)


I don’t feel like you are debating in good faith as you don’t take what I say at face-value. Instead, you twist it into an interpretation that conveniently mirrors your ideological interpretation of reality but is actually a strawman. You wrote:


    Quote:
    I think that's disingenuous. The thrust of your point is that the Dems are doing a pretty good job all things considered. It doesn't really matter much that you include something like "Well hey it could have been better, but nothing's perfect..." before your conclusion that "under the circumstances they really are doing their best for the American people."

I was upfront in saying the legislation were not unqualified successes, that they were ALL mixed bags, and cited specific details of such. You take that and put words into my mouth, “they really are doing their best for the American people” and that I am “sadly mistaking” this “for the limit of public or working class participation in politics” which is just a blatant strawman and nothing that I ever stated. You say I’m not saying "this isn't enough, you have to do more!" but my calling the legislation mixed bags implicitly means that they are not enough. Instead, according to you, I am saying, “oh yes, you guys are great! This bowl of porridge is just right” when my my post was already that these bills were important but modest.

So I’m not being disingenuous. You are in claiming that you somehow know better than I do what my thoughts and intentions are. You keep saying that I’m dismissing criticism of or I’m uncritical of the Democrats when I literally wrote “there is a lot that Democrats can be criticized for,” a statement which does not at all equate with “Well hey it could have been better, but nothing's perfect.” Then you stated, “Yeah, your MENTIONING criticism doesn't mean you're not dismissing it.” What kind of sophistry is that? I wasn’t mentioning criticism. I was making criticism, and making criticism is the opposite of dismissing it. We can’t have an honest debate if I have to constantly argue against your misrepresentations of me.

Here is another condescending assertion, “As to the Pharma aspects of the Bill I'd encourage you to look into anyone offering any criticism of it to get a fuller picture. Above is your basically describing the sales job around it. Above you don't address any of the criticism against it. You just don't seem aware of them. If you are aware then it's curious to exclude them."

I am aware of this aspect of the bill. I work in healthcare. I upfront stated its limitations, not you. It’s not “curious to exclude them” because this is a comic book community forum and I’m not writing a dissertation that delves into every specific in these bills. I explicitly gave the name and time of passage of each bill so that people can easily look up the specifics on the internet. You accused me of not going into more detail about these bills, but in your first response to me, you didn’t go into a single detail but instead made only broad generalizations. You didn’t mention that in addition for the drug price negotiation, this bill caps out-of-pocket costs to $2,000 for seniors or that Big Pharma has to pay rebates if their drug prices rise faster than inflation. That will save many seniors a lot of money. You just don't seem aware of them. If you are aware then it's curious to exclude them.


Again, you accused me of someone who doesn’t go into details or intentionally elides them. Me, the person who wrote a 10,000-word post that explained in detail my take on the Democratic Party, how I see is the best way to reform it, how it indeed needs reform, and how your take on how political persuasion works is wrong. In this post of yours, you again mischaracterize my positions as counter to so much of what I wrote there (https://comicboards.com/php/show.php?rpy=community-2022051703335937). It’s like you can only debate me if you act as if you are arguing with someone else who said something else while wiping out the gray areas I put forth as if I implied something else despite the literal thing I’ve said.

I’ve been on this forum for over 20 years. I’ve seen people come and go. You were a breath of fresh air when you came here and obviously people had a good impression of you or you wouldn’t have been offered a moderator position. I liked you a lot then. I still think you have a lot to offer in these forums. But whatever you are like in real life, you’ve increasingly adopted an online persona of a know-it-all scold. In another post on this board, I think you said that you wanted to hear self-criticism. That’s a good, healthy mentality to have, but then when you got that criticism, you dismissed it as not accurate. I mean, you riled up Trent Trueheart and The Silver Surfer, both of whom rarely get testy, and bd2999 stepped in as a moderator and you dismissed everyone else’s interpretation of how that debate was going. The truth is, you are not tolerant of other perspectives and when others offer them, you are often glib and condescending. I mean not as much as HammerTime/FreeKyle or some other provocateurs, but it’s there. For you, any statement that Democrats do some good, however qualified = naïve, uninformed stupidity based on news media you find contemptible and equates to the Democratic Party requiring no changes because you as a Marxist are apparently among the few who know the TRUTH and the only one here who educates themselves with the right media and is not deluded by propaganda. Look, everyone thinks they are right because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t hold the beliefs that they do. However, not everyone is so confident or firm in their beliefs that they pass judgment on others who hold different beliefs. So take this as self-criticism: whatever your intentions, you come across as highly judgmental, acting like you know better than everyone else, and that you are the last bastion of sensibility. It’s not just me saying it. You can believe otherwise, but you can’t really argue against how others perceive you. It's their perception, not yours.






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