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Post By
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Late Great Donald Blake 
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,563
Subj: Re: Yeah exactly.
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 at 05:52:54 pm EDT (Viewed 182 times)
Reply Subj: Yeah exactly.
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 at 02:46:45 pm EDT (Viewed 187 times)



    Quote:
    You and I are probably going to disagree about whether or not I'm being unnecessarily condescending .


I don't know what that means. When is condescension necessary?


    Quote:
    How did you think that would go?  I'm willing to hear this criticism publicly.  That hardly means I would or should  automatically agree with you.

I guess I did take you at face value and think you would seriously evaluate critiques that you publicly welcomed. On the other hand, I didn't at all expect you to agree. That you dismissed this exact criticism previously was indicative that you would not agree.


    Quote:
    And I'm not saying you're being too sensitive, but you're certainly biased.  I'll put it to you this way: I don't think people with very different political persuasions in the middle of an argument about high stakes subject matter make good objective judges of the character of the opposition.

Even if that is true, bias does not automatically equate to being incorrect. Based on the exact same bias but on your side, you may be taking affront and incorrectly dismissing the critique precisely because of that bias.


    Quote:
    And I'm going to repeat this.  I haven't been any more glib or condescending to you than I think you've been to Trump supporters.  It's not a title for tat issue.  It's an issue that in that case I imagine you feel like the attitude if superiority is appropriate due to the political realities.  Well... same here.

I have been condescending to Trump supporters, although my usual reaction is more one of incredulity. It's not something I am proud of, but I thought that was something of which you disapprove. If so, then you are being hypocritical. I also try not to be condescending to Trump supporters when in direct dialogue to them. It's different when just talking about them to someone else, just like how people discuss others more frankly when they are not present. In any case, I don't necessarily buy your "I don't think people with very different political persuasions in the middle of an argument about high stakes subject matter make good objective judges of the character of the opposition." You and I both studied philosophy. We have probably both had plenty of heated debates with friends or peers, at least I have, and I usually come away feeling no worse about them afterward. I have had many heated political debates with Upper Krust, a Trump supporter, on these boards. We have both agreed in messaging each other after that they have sometimes been too heated, certainly far more heated than any debate I've ever had with you, but we remain friendly. I don't find him condescending and he is often quite gracious, even conceding points. Heck, in private messaging, HammerTime/FreeKyle and I came to some degree of mutual understanding and respect and I found his values and style abominable.


    Quote:
    Finally I'm not trying to prove to you I'm not unnecessarily or gratuitously condescending.  You're entitled to your opinion.  I'm saying I disagree.  I think I'm obeying all requisite etiquette.


You sometimes employ double negatives in sentences that make them confusing. But if you're going to say you welcome critiques and then you immediately rationalize them away, that at least makes you appear to be disingenuous. I don't think you're trying to be disingenuous. I think you are a very intelligent person who has invested their identity very strongly in a political ideology that results in confirmation bias that supports your views and psychological denial of what doesn't support your views. Yes, this describes everyone to some degree, but the more invested you are in a particular world view, usually the more aptly this description fits. I'm not exempt from this, but I try to make evaluations and engage in debate as dispassionately as possible. That drives my spouse crazy to be dealing with Mr. Spock.





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