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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,976
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: Wokism
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 at 06:59:54 pm EDT (Viewed 163 times)
Reply Subj: Wokism
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 at 04:02:36 pm EDT (Viewed 219 times)

    To some extent I may agree, but to me it has started to seem like it tilts too much the other way towards individuals that seem to be offended by anything that differs from what they think should be. It is their right to think what they want but at times it comes very close to being very ugly (racist, sexist, homophobic etc).

This is growing problem with extremists on both sides of the political spectrum.

    On another board I had a very long discussion and the best definition of the concept I got was that media was shoving certain ideas or lifestyles down people's throats and they had enough of it. Mostly they said this referred to making women like men in giving them male traits or normalizing homosexuality or LGBTQ things.

My understanding is something is "woke" is when a piece of media exists for the sole purpose to push the perceived progressive agenda. A common example is when a previously existing intellectaul property is changed include things that are considered part of said progressive agenda.

    To me that seems odd, so whenever the media or movie does that, it is woke and will lead to failure if it does not delve there or is it only when an existing property is changed to fit there?

I have seen it used for both though most frequently the latter. That said there is no hard and fast definition. I think it is overused. That said I can see why some people do think some things are "woke."

    Like Ghostbusters (2016) I would agree falls under that to some degree with a gender swap with the lead cast, but I do not think that is why the movie was not very good. It was just not a very good or memorable film, but it is still there.

I don't think this was a good film for a variety of reasons. One reason being this is something I can see being insultingly "woke" and not due to the all-female cast. IIRC, all males in the film are either over-the-top stupid, losers, or out to put the female protagonists down. It is an exaggerated "take that" at the patriarchy. Compare that to the 1990s cartoon Extreme Ghostbusters with a much more diverse cast or the more recent film that had a female lead. Neither one felt like it was pushing an agenda.

    I bring this up only because it seems to be an overused criticism that I am not sure is a criticism. I mean the most recent example I have seen be somewhat hammered as woke that is quite good was Sandman. Opinions will differ but alot of the folks knocking it are doing so based on the most cosmetic or gay being icky perspectives.

It is overused. It is a simplistic, quick insult for anything that is changed in anyway that does make something more diverse or updated. The progressive equiviliant is calling someone a white supremeist even when they have understandable objections to something.

The Sandman's case is ironic because the original comic did feature homosexual characters. And the point of The Endless is they take different forms.

    There is just some irony about some groups that fight to be offensive being offended and so willing to throw out a blanket label.

I don't think everyone who uses it is trying to be offensive though a lot are trying to be offensive. In some cases, I think the people upset do have a point.

    I have seen it used a little with the She Hulk show but have not seen it yet myself to judge one way or another. I am sure it focuses on experiences some women have, and should with a woman lead.

I have only seen one episode so far and that wasn't "woke." There were some humor at how hard women have it, but but a few jokes hardly make anything woke. I read similar claims made against the Hawkeye series a few months back.

To me, if a piece of media is "woke" or not depends on how heavy or much it changes something to promote an agenda.

Shows I consider "woke":

Ghostbusters (2016) - For reasons stated above I don't recall a single sympathetic male in their compare to all the other Ghostbusters that have a more balanced treatment of the genders.

Masters of the Universe: Revelations - The advertisements, interviews, etc promoted He-Man as front and center. Instead, he is pushed aside for Teela. This itself wouldn't be enough to make it woke. It is the show claiming to be a sequel to the 1980s series only for major parts of the lore to be thrown out to show how special Teela is along with Evil-Lyn's ridiculous backstory and getting away with it all at the end. It is female empowerment at the expense of everything else.

Thor (2014)- Jane picking up the hammer is not woke. Jane picking up the hammer and suddenly being the best thing, loved by everyone etc. along with Odin being every evil old white guy sterotype one can think of and Thor moping about his lost hammer makes it woke.

Things that are "not" woke, but have been called such.

The Sandman - Yes, some characters have had their gender or race changed from the comic. It has had no effect on the story and isn't shoving said changes down your throat.

He-Man and the Masters of the universe (2022) - Some characters have had their race changed and it promotes the message of He-Man sharing the power instead of keeping it to himself. Yet it is not at the sacrifice of story or feel like it is forcing an agenda down your throat.

To be fair, progressives can hide behind cheap insults to though it is less common. The Seth rogen show Santa, Inc was lamblasted by critics. Seth claimed anyone who insulted it was a white supremacist.

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