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Subj: Cut and paste, man, cut and paste............LOL...
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 at 06:32:01 pm EDT
Reply Subj: Applauds. Reply with this one everytime that Q is asked :)
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 at 05:10:26 am EDT
As intrigued as I am by the moral ramifications of this series and as engaging as some of the discussions are, I am a little bit tired of blanket statements like "WWH proves the Illuminati was right".
Not to say that no one has a right to that opinion, or that there isn't any basis for it.
I've just seen it too many times already, and I personally think it oversimplifies the issue.
So, yeah, if I found an argument that says what I want to say on the matter, I can let the matter rest.
That said, as an objective observer, I don't think the Hulk is 100% justified in his actions, either, although after all these years it's understandable.
But as a fan of a fictional character in a fictional universe, I'm enjoying the beatdowns, justified or not. In fact, I sort of wish they'd take it further. But enough about that ...for now.
> > As I've said before, what WWH proves isn't that they were correct but that their plan backfired.
> > The Hulk is more of a threat because they exiled him than he was before they exiled him.
> > So that doesn't go a long way towards being right.
> > One should take real world scenarios into account, BUT we can't discount the differences between the MU and the real world in formulating our opinions.
> > The Hulk, for a large part of history has been like a child (or like a teenager, in the case of Grey Hulk and some versions of Gravage Hulk).
> > In the real world, children often vent their anger inappropriately and lash out at the wrong people.
> > Lickily, children are smaller and weaker than adults and the damage they can do is minimal. They are containable to the point where they can be taught and learn to react appropriately to their emotions.
> > In the real world, we've never had a child so powerful he could level cities.
> > If we did, we wouldn't have many options for keeping that power in check long enough to have the child learn right behaviors.
> > So, yes, in the real world, we wouldn't have much choice - IF we could manage to exile or kill such a creature, we might not have any other choice.
> > However, in the MU there are many characters with power levels in the same range as the Hulk's.
> > Even if it's debatable who would win in a fight, someone like Thor or the Sentry isn't going to die instantly from taking one of the Hulk's punches, thrown in misdirected anger.
> > And the varied disciplines, from magic to super-science, employed by many heroes, give them a chance to work with him too.
> > Obviously, heroes are busy and can't play nursemaid all the time, but I bet the Illuminati could have come up with a much better plan.
> > Since the Hulk has been not only harmless much of the time, but even acted a s a hero MANY times, even saving the world from destruction once or twice, but also proven a menace on other occasions, they might want to weigh their options.
> > Kill him? It's proven hard to do, and isn't the best path morally if other options exist.
> > Imprisonment? Not likely to stick.
> > Exile? Worth discussing, certainly, but given the events of World War Hulk it's not necessarily the best option. Aside from the moral questions, it leaves the door open for Hulk coming back more pissed off than ever and feeling justified in his anger.
> > A coordinated plan for rehabilitation?
> > Now, there's an idea.
> > Since the Illuminati decided to take action and exile the Hulk AFTER the return of the Sentry, I'm amazed they didn' think of this.
> > Sentry's aura calms Hulk down, the two have a friendship, Sentry's powerful enough that just being around the Hulk if he flips out isn't going to kill him. The Sentry on his own has had great success getting the Hulk to act as a hero and as his partner.
> > AND, since the Sentry has his own instabilities and has been a menace (as the Void), we alrready know that Tony, Reed and Strange are willing to work with such people to turn them into an asset rather than a threat.
> > Strange, too, has had great luck in pursuing an ongoing friendship and partnership with Hulk in the past.
> > Samson could provide valuable assistance, too, as could the Hulk's cousin, Jen (She-Hulk). And Rick.
> > Since the Hulk was exiled right before Civil War started, imagine this scenario in a pre-Civil War world.
> > Hulk/Bruce is talked into joining the New Avengers by Bob/Sentry. Initially, despite being one of the most powerful members, he is not included in field missions unless his power is desperatly needed.
> > Reed, Tony, Strange and the rest of the Illuminati take an active role when time permits and also function behind the scenes. Samson comes in to work with the Hulk psychologically.
> > Essentially, they treat the Hulk like what he is, in some ways - a child.
> > They help him learn, grow, discover things about himself.
> > They nurture his intellect til it is wthe best it can be.
> > We'd never be able to do this with someone as powerful as the Hulk in the real world, cuz we'd never survive him throwing temper tantrums.
> > In the MU, they have similarly powerful individuals, all with special talents to contribute.
> > They have the resources.
> > Maybe, in the Hulk's case, it takes a village.
> > In comics, it seems, lime in real life, the tendency with anything or anyone that doesn't immediately fit seems to be to beat it down, kill it, lock it away or send it away.
> > There is a lesson here for the real world after all.
> > Sometimes it takes more effort but pays higher rewards to work with people.
> > > The whole premise, lately, in these stories is bringing in what would happen in the real world. In the real world, a guy who got out of control and turned into a monster and could level a city with his power,would be killed. What the illuminati did seems reasonable, and Bruce Banner should have been cured a long time ago if he really cared about other people, or exiled himself. It's unreasonable to the nth degree to think entire populations have to bend over and get hit cause Hulk wants to 'smash' on occasion. Talk about being above the law? *rhe*
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