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Post By
Ikarus

In Reply To
TJ Burns

Subj: Re: Question regarding the Hawks....headache to follow
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 02:40:55 pm EDT (Viewed 242 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Question regarding the Hawks....headache to follow
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 05:21:38 pm EDT (Viewed 278 times)


> > > I have a "difficult" question, and am looking for a simple answer. (Good luck with that)
> > >
> > > Actually, it's sort of a 2 parter...
> > >
> > > Was Hawkgirl/woman (of Earth-1) ever a full member of the JLA?
> >
> > Yes, she was.
>
> Joined during the Steve Englehart run, where Hawkman basically told Superman OFF and threatened to quit the League if she wasn't given a fair shot at membership. (Man, I miss the Silver Age Hawkman...)
>
> > > Is the Hawkman in current JSA supposed to be the Hawkman that was originally from Earth-1?
> >
> > No. Basically, none of the heroes we see now are like the Earth 1 heroes we once knew. Some are close, but they are still different.
> >
> > The current Hawkman is a combination of the post-COIE JSA Hawkman and the post-Zero Hour Thanagarian Hawkman. He is Carter Hall of the JSA, but not the exact same Carter Hall from Earth 2. For example, this one was a member of both the JSA and the JLA since the Thanagarian Hawkman didn't arrive on Earth till later. And the Thanagarian Hawkman is/was more "primal" than the Earth 1 Hawkman we once knew. Carter and Katar are one being now, with Carter being the dominant personality.
>
> The core cool thing about that revamp is that Carter's got full memories and emotional investment to every single Hawkman appearance in continuity. The problem with that is that it'll always be a struggle to decide whether that means he should be in the League or the JSA. \:\)
>
> > > I know there has been so much crap done to the Hawks and I'm still so lost over who is what is whom, etc. I kinda get the whole reincarnation thing, but not really, all I know is currently, all the members of the JLA and JSA pretty much accept them being on the teams, but leave them alone.
> > >
> > > Could someone kinda give me a simple yet clear idea of who became what? Thanks.
> > >
> > That's practically impossible! \:\)
>
> Nah, not really.
>
> Original Earth-2 Hawkman - Almost died during the CRISIS (and was slated to, but Roy Thomas saved him!), and went into Limbo with the JSA once New Earth formed. Was then transformed/retconned into the "modern age" Golden Age Hawkman. Same pretty well goes for the Earth-2 Hawkgirl.
>
> Silver Age Hawkman - Ceased to exist post-CRISIS, although it didn't take effect until much lated due to the intervention of Mekanique. (Whose attempts to preserve the Earth-2 heroes, since his elimination from the timestream would affect Carter Hall, saved him for a while.) During his grace period, he had several adventures in his ongoing series and rejoined the JLI, although he didn't much like it. Sadly, he faded away when Mekanique's delays were ended. His JLA role pre-CRISIS was filled by Carter Hall, and his role Post-CRISIS was filled by a Thanagarian assassin sent to infiltrate the League and keep them off-balance during the Invasion! crossover.) Same basically goes for the Silver Age Hawkwoman, although she was replaced by a perfectly innocent young woman who thought she'd married into the Carter family.
>
> Modern-Age Golden Age Hawkman - We learned that he was the one JSAer that never fully retired from his role as Hawkman, and that he joined the JLA early in that organization's history to offer some much-needed guidance. We learned also that he was friendly with Katar's dad on Earth during the 40s, and it was Carter's rediscovery of the Thanagarian Nth Metal on Earth that allowed him to re-invent it on Thanagar, and create a Hawk-police in his friends' image. Carter acted as the liasion between the JSA and the JLA during the early years of the League, and retired from the League when he was forced to choose between those two teams by Aquaman when the Detroit League restarted. Shortly after the CRISIS, he was sent into Limbo alongside his JSA friends. He was released from Limbo in one of the Armaggeddon crossovers. (Armaggeddon: Inferno?) Immediately met up with the new Thanagarian Hawkman and discovered he'd murdered his father in a drug-induced spiral, and attempted to bring him in, although the two managed to patch things up. Carter then assisted Katar when he saved him from certain death at the end of the Hawkworld series and arranged for his and Shayera's legal asylum on Earth. He then kicked around a few guest-shots in Darkstars, and in the Justice Society's reformation. Ultimately, he merged with Katar during Zero Hour, and was part of the merged Hawkman until that Hawkman was sent into Limbo, where Carter integrated with Katar totally, and Katar's spirit and individual will perished. He was retrieved mystically from this Limbo in JSA #23, and has been the sole Hawkman on earth pretty much since then. (Although Golden Eagle BRIEFLY assumed the role of Hawkman near the end of the Hawkman series.) The modern incarnation of the Golden Age Hawkgirl died during Zero Hour, and was reincarnated as Kendra, the current Hawkgirl.
>
> Hawkworld Hawkman - The Post-CRISIS Silver Age Hawkman. This Katar Hol came from a much-darker Thanagar and fell in love with American ideals upon being exposed to them, acting as a hero on Earth and ultimately betraying Thanagar to reside here permanently. He never was a true member of the Justice League... at least, not before he gained the presence of JLA member Carter Hall in his head, after their merger, at which point he promptly joined Wonder Woman's League. He died while in Limbo as part of the merged Hawkman, leaving Carter his memories and experiences.
>
> The Hawkworld Hawkwoman was a much more violent and militaristic incarnation, and did not take to life on Earth as easily as Katar did. She survived the events that led to Katar's death, albeit depowered, and ultimately regained her wings. She encountered her old enemy Byth while that villain was impersonating Katar in St. Roch, after she confronted Carter Hall over his return, believing he was still partly Katar. Upon defeating Byth, she returned with him to Thanagar, only to become embroiled in the Rann-Thanagar War, where she was murdered by Blackfire. Carter swore a revenge over her body.
>
> JLI Hawkman - The Thanagarian infiltrator and assassin I mentioned earlier. Claimed to be Carter's son, Carter Hall Jr.. (Apparently, with the Atom underground, Carter in Limbo, and the alterations to the classic League's history, nobody in the League knew Carter's only son was Hector Hall.) He was actually a Thanagarian assassin named Fel Andar who was sent to deceive the League and ultimately strike at it during Invasion!, but was exposed by his human wife, that era's Hawkwoman. When she discovered he was an alien, racist monster, she attempted to defeat him and expose his impersonation. He fatally wounded her, but not before she managed to alert the Martian Manhunter to her husband's true nature before dying in his arms. He left with the Thanagarian army upon its withdrawal, leaving behind his hybrid son, Teen Titans member Golden Eagle, whom he saved from death at the hands of the Wildebeest Society before his deportation. He returned, assigned by Thanagar to imitate Katar Hol later, but was beaten into a comatose state by that hero, and sent back to Thanagar. As a result of either the brain damage from Katar's mace, or finally seeing himself as the racist monster he was, he became a pacifist and a priest on Thanagar, and attempted to end the recent Rann-Thanagar War on terms favorable to Rann, before he was executed by Blackfire. He died a hero and a man of peace, finally worthy of acknowledgement as a true Hawkman.
>
> Golden Eagle - Misled the current Hawkman and Hawkgirl into believing he was Carter's son rather than the Thanagarian Fel Andar's. Arranged Carter's assassination to take his role as Hawkman. Carter figured it out, and faked his own death with the aid of his son, and allowed Charlie to act as Hawkman until he attempted to kill Hawkgirl and return to Thanagar. Carter brutally beat and mutilated his opponent, and sent him back to Thanagar in disgrace, where, to his surprise, he met his now-pacifistic father and fell in with him and Carter's attempt to end the Rann-Thanagar War. He vowed vengeance on Blackfire after she barbecued his father, and remained with the Thanagarian military after her defeat. He was recently partnered with Forerunner, after she defeated him in combat and claimed him as her prize, upon which she used him as breeding stock. He ultimately returned to Thanagar.
>
> Any further questions?
>
>
> TJB

No. Thanks.