|Justice League of America >> View Post|
Subj: You make many good points.
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 at 01:00:07 pm EST (Viewed 332 times)
Reply Subj: Re: A more coherent defense of the Justice League film...
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 at 02:51:23 pm EST (Viewed 383 times)
First of all, apologies to Zelf, my reply came off way more defensive and way less funny than I was targeting. I should never post late at night.
I understand the Godzilla reference as I’m a huge fan of all the Japanese films, Showa, Heisei, and Millennium. I recognize higher quality filmmaking in the later ones, but still love the goofy ones. (Though I found the latest American one dull without enough Godzilla. Skull Island gave me hope for the sequel)
My superhero opinion comes from a different place.
I agree that Marvel is doing the films far better. They put the building blocks down first allowing them to pretty much hit any genre they want and have it be true to their universe. If they were on opposite eachother, I’d watch Ragnarok over JLA. The way Marvel developed the movies matches the way DC created their excellent Animated Universe.
I think DCs problem has frequently stemmed from being owned outright by Warner Brothers, and the WB doing whatever they want with the characters, or the character names in many cases. Marvel usually seemed to have more creative control even before the Marvel Studios and Disney days.
I hated Man of Steel, and after watching clips and reading synopses of Batman Vs. Superman, decided not to pay to be annoyed for over two hours. I see Justice League as them learning from the success of Wonder Woman (which I liked a great deal) and organically transforming to a lighter and more “accurate” DCU.
I’ve read pretty much every version of these characters in comics, Golden Age, Silver Age, that really goofy and insane period in the 50’s between them, Bronze Age, and pre and post the parade of Crises from 1985 up to the present day. Maybe that’s how I can enjoy so many versions of the characters.
Cyborg in the league is revisionist, but it's a revisionism that's been comic book cannon since 2011, and was first used way back in 1985 on the Superfriends cartoon.
Aquaman spends half his time as ruler of Atlantis in comics, and half the time as an exile. Justice League goes the exile route, for now, and mixes Peter David’s version with the one from the Brave and Bold cartoon. Flash is probably closest to Justice League Europe era Wally, with some of the DCAU version thrown in.
The Adam West Batman wouldn’t fit in today’s comics or movies, but is a classic and his series matched the comic books of the time, taking some plots from them.
I even enjoy watching the reviled Batman and Robin since it reminds me of those 1950’s insane stories. (Plus under its goofiness, it’s got some of the best Bruce/ Alfred scenes ever done.)
I know that the Dark Knight trilogy are better films than those two versions of Batman, by pretty much every applicable standard of movie reviewing, but it doesn’t stop me from enjoying the other ones. Though I still can't watch Batman Returns, as I can't find any connection to the source material, sometimes you need to tell Tim Burton, "Stop."
Affleck was less Dark Knight Returns and more of the Morrison, “Yeah, he’s a jerk sometimes, but his heart is in the right place” guy. Maybe they’ll use Flashpoint to recast with a younger version, who knows? That’s a really weird choice for a Flash solo film, but that's an argument for another day.
The comic book Justice League did start as an All Star team (as Kurt Buseik said, comparing them to the Avengers as a championship team.) But it’s gone through a huge number of iterations as well.
No, I don't want to see Justice League Detroit, the movie, I’m not that crazy.
Considering Batman and Superman were members who hardly ever showed up in the early stories, the idea of the “top tier” DC Trinity is relatively new. However, they have been shown that way in comics back to around the Morrison JLA series, I’d guess.
Even before that in the JLI and subsequent days, those three would often take on the “responsible adult” role compared to the rest of the League.
Again, roles and the complexities of stories and characters change over time a great deal. When the Appelaxians were introduced an alien invasion force that led to the Silver Age formation of the Justice League in comics (and in post crisis retellings), they weren’t any more developed or complex villains than Steppenwolf was, because the focus was on introducing the heroes to eachother.
I wonder if the film would have been more well received if it was advertised as “Superman’s Return” with guest stars.
That's a big reason I enjoyed this film. Your point about Superman being done wrong is 100% accurate for the past films.
They fixed that, and made him a brighter, beacon of hope, and grounded his personality though connections to friends and family
While he probably could have taken down Steppenwolf alone, he didn't have to , allowing him to leave the fight and rescue civilians, in a very Supermanish moment.
That’s another advantage Marvel has by doing it right. Deviations from the source material arose organically thorough the individual films before the team ups started. DC hits us in the face with them all at once.
It’s not at the expected quality level of a Marvel film, but it felt like a DC story to me. It provided both entertainment and hope that the upcoming solo films and the future of the universe they created will follow Wonder Woman and not Man of Steel.
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