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Post By
Ed Love

Location: North Carolina
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: IMO, the Thanagarians should be revealed as the avatars of Ancient Egyptian worshippers of Horus, the Hawk God, and everything else should be erased ...
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 05:12:06 pm EST (Viewed 1180 times)
Reply Subj: IMO, the Thanagarians should be revealed as the avatars of Ancient Egyptian worshippers of Horus, the Hawk God, and everything else should be erased ...
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 09:22:36 am EST (Viewed 1323 times)

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    Quote:
    It was all cleaned up in the early 2000s. Why did they mess it up again?


I disagree a bit with you on that.

Johns, Robinson & Goyer did their best to revitalize Hawkman. Back then, since Katar Hol seemed to be beyond repair, they decided to bring back the Golden Age Hawkman instead. It was clever.

But they also liked the Silver Age aspects of the Hawkman and through subtle, nearly invisible small retcons, they managed to do it. The mythology of the Silver Age Hawkman was added to the background of the Golden Age Hawkman without too much trouble.

At the same time, I don't think that they managed to really clean the mess. It was too difficult to do in the JSA book and the Hawkman book didn't last long enough to clean all the plot holes.

I will explain what was left unexplained, in my opinion.

It comes from the names of the characters.

The Golden Age Hawkman & Hawkgirl are Carter Hall & Shiera.
The Silver Age Hawkman & Hawkgirl are Katar Hol & Shayera but, on Earth, they call themselves Carter & Shiera.

Do you see where I am going ?

Katar is named Katar because of Carter who was his father's friend in the new continuity ... but Shiera & Shayera ... it is also an uncanny coincidence.

The coincidence doesn't end there.

Khufu's full name is ... Khufu Maat Kha-Tar.
The name of the princess is ... Chay-Ara.

Phonetically, the Egyptian Hawkman & Hawkgirl have the same names than their Thanagarian counterparts even though they come from two different planets and two different time periods.

It is too big a coincidence to ignore, especially since it involves the two main characters, Hawkman & Hawkgirl, at the same time.

The most logical explanation was actually given by the DC animated series : Khufu & Chay-Ara were actually two Thanagarian ancient astronauts who were worshipped as Hawk Gods by the ancient Egyptians. It was simple & efficient.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Chay-Ara_Hol_(DCAU)
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Katar_Hol_(DCAU))


Unfortunately, to include this explanation in 2000s continuity, it would have been necessary to retcon again the story of the Hawks.

At the same time, other hawk characters were revealed as avatars of Hawkman & Hawkgirl through time (Nighthawk & Cinnamon, Silent Knight). IMO, while it seemed like a good idea at the time, it added new layers to the historical background of the couple and, thus, it was even more difficult to clean the mess.


    Quote:

    Wasn't it enough to be an Earthbound anomaly?

No, I don't think so. Thanagar & aliens have become an important part of the Hawks mythology. One way or another, it has to remain.
Johns, Robinson & Goyer provided the best explanation : the Nth Metal is linked to Thanagar and is the cause of the spacetime anomalies.
It is a very clever explanation because both the Golden Age & Silver Age Hawks had "anti-gravity belts". And, as we know, gravity is a geometric property of spacetime.


    Quote:
    Weren't they already explained at one point? Carter and Shiera were Egyptians reincarnated, Fel Andar and his lady were spies, Katar and Shayera were legacy replacements from Thanagar. Is that so hard? I suppose every Flash-related character will be revealed as a time-displaced reincarnation of Barry Allen?


No but ... Barry Allen was revealed as the source of the Speed Force which empowers every heroic speedster through space & time ... :-I


    Quote:
    It seems weird to me for some reason to reincarnate on other planets. I mean Lexx did it but that's hardly a high benchmark.


I totally agree with you that they are going way too far with the concept ... I am not sure that it is interesting to have a version of the Hawks on any gravitational body in the Multiverse ...

... Especially since it means that there would be multiple reincarnations of the Hawks on each planet ...

... Also, I dislike that Hawkman should be revealed as the reincarnation of a former mass murderer ...

This is too far from the original concept of Hawkman & Hawkgirl.

I would do something simpler : what if Thanagar & the Ancient Egyptian cult of Horus are one & the same civilization ?

(In the picture below, a Thanagarian Wingman with the Eye of Horus)


Katar Hol & Shayera are Thanagarians who recently came to Earth to find old artefacts which belonged to Ancient Egyptian worshippers of Horus.

Along the way, it would be revealed that Katar Hol & Shayera are the current avatars of two of the worshippers of Horus, Khufu Maat Kha-Tar & Chay-Ara. The Absorbascon allows them to get the memories of their past selves on Earth.

The Thanagarian worshippers of Horus live double lives : one on current Thanagar, one in Ancient Egypt millennia ago through a ritual involving Nth Metal.

That's all.

I would erase everything else.


Hath-Set and Byth Rok could be revealed as worshippers of Set, the God of Chaos.
The Shadow Thief could be the current avatar of Hath-Set just like in the DC animated series. He could have possessed the body of Carl Sands.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_Thief_(DCAU))

The Manhawks could be revealed as the descendants of some birds who were mutated by the ancient worshippers of Horus. The ones who remain on Earth would be known as the Feithereans. It would also explain why the Thanagarians can speak to birds on Earth.


Lionmane could be revealed as the reincarnation of a worshipper of Maahes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maahes

The Gentleman Ghost could be revealed as a dead man who was turned into a ghost by the Nth Metal centuries ago. It would explain why he is vulnerable to the Nth Metal.




    Quote:

    Are Hath-Set and Hector still part of the reincarnation cycle? Does Hector exist in the New 52?


As far as I know, Hath-Set is still part of the origin of the Egyptian Hawkman & Hawkgirl.

Hector died in 2006. Since then, he has been conveniently totally forgotten.




https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ContinuitySnarl/Hawkman

I think Johns added to the confusion instead of clarifying it, which this series only compounds. I believe it was he that decided the ancient Egyptian incarnations had the same phonetic names as the present day concepts. Also retconned was that Hawk-god mess, instead of different men who were avatars of the Hawkgod through the centuries and being killed by Vandal Savage (Zero Hour retcon), Geoff Johns establishes those are all actually Prince Khufu along with Sheira cursed to being reincarnated and killed by Hath-Set over and over through the centuries.

The current storyline to me is just a bigger mess, with his reincarnations overlapping and basically being the Immortal Man. And, frankly, has gone on too long. Once revealed he was reincarnating on alien planets, I bailed on the comic.

I like the explanation that the Thanagarian Hawk force came from Thanagarians on earth researching Nth metal with Khufu. Then, just go with the simplest explanation: Centuries later, an exploratory expedition of Katar and Shayera come to earth and through the absorbascon learn about the 1940s Hawks and decide honor them by adopting their names and crime fighting identities, maybe even passing themselves off as the grand-nephews or distant relative. That their names are already similar, just a hokey coincidence and leave it at that.




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