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Post By
Chronic Ionic

In Reply To
gunwitch31

Subj: Re: Is it Right for the JSA to Remember Earth 2?
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 01:27:29 am EDT
Reply Subj: Re: Is it Right for the JSA to Remember Earth 2?
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 01:48:49 pm EDT

Previous Post

> I apologise if this is going over old ground - but do you think it wise or indeed relevant to have the JSA oldguard now remember their Earth 2 legacy?

Relevant? Not really. Not when we had managed to go 20 years without any of that popping up.
>
> It seems to me to be fraught with problems... If they remember all of that history wouldn't it drive them batty trying to reconcile it with the world they have been living in?!

You're right. Although I don't know what they can do about it now that they've opened that Pandora's Box.

> How does them remembering work in practical terms? I mean to all intents and purposes Kal-L is now a 'present-day' memory for them, he's even buried in their universe - they can presumably visit his grave if they choose to do so! Lois Lanes notebook is now in their museum, while 'Lois Lane' works for the Daily Planet and... Ohh you get the gist of it :-/
>
> Is/was it a good idea? And how might the upcoming rumour of further Alternate Earths impact on this already confused state of affairs?

10 years ago you would have heard me saying how great it is having all of the multiple earths integrated into one cohesive universe. I kind of gushed at the idea that now all of these heroes could interact with greater ease and new stories would arise out of one common thread of history, even at the expense of a few key figures like the golden-age Batman, Superman, etc.

But as the years go by, and DC continues to fiddle with history, constantly sliding the 'starting point' for Kal-El, the Justice League, basically the entire Silver Age further and further away from their Golden Age counterparts, I am beginning to see a never ending quagmire of chaotic continuity. Even by slowly allowing the remaining Golden Age heroes to slip from this mortal coil so as to lessen the bumps in the timeline of the DCU is not working. Not when you've got the same problems now occurring with the Silver Age heroes. One Infinite Crisis, or Countdown, or Zero Hour rolled out every few years is just making things worse.

At this point I think the best thing that DC could do is to separate the universes again. At least separate Earth's 1 & 2. Remove all traces of there having been Golden Age heroes on this earth. Fix it so that Wildcat didn't train Batman & Hawkman didn't serve in both the JLA and JSA. Although something special would have to be designed for certain characters like Black Canary and Zatanna who's parents were originally living on Earth-2. And new version of old characters, like the current Dr. Mid-Nite & Mr. Terrific would have to be Earth-1 counterparts of the originals on Earth-2. This is basically what we have with the Green Lanterns, Flashes, & Atoms.

But I say, give it a certain bittersweet ending wherein everyone on Earth-1 only remembers the JSA & All Star Squadron as comic book characters. Meanwhile on Earth-2, basically its just the JSA, All-Star Squadron, Freedom Fighters, & the Marvel Family. Everyone is young and healthy. The entire world is still 1940 something. Have the 2 worlds rediscover each other, but for some reason if Earth-1 2007 wants to cross over with Earth-2, it's Earth-2 1940's. Earth-2 would be a universe that is 50-60 years behind Earth-1. Their Earth formed that many years later than ours with only a few historical differences. That or everytime someone tries to cross the dimensional barrier they actually cross a dimensional-time barrier. You can't necessarily access Earth-2 2007. Yes there would be an Infinity, Inc., the future of the JSA, but it would have to be something off-limits to Earth-1 and only accessible by travelling into the future while on Earth-2. Say good bye to Power Girl on Earth-1, reassociate her with Kal-L's later years. Bring back the Huntress on that Earth's 'future'.

One earth had cowboys like John Thunder, the Trigger Twins, & Matt Savage, Trail Boss. The other comes from darker gunslingers like Jonah Hex & Scalphunter. One Earth will lead to Tommy Tomorrow, the other to Kamandi. One Earth will spawn the LSH, the other... who knows? Also move the Marvel Family to that Earth. While I think the things done with Black Adam these last few years have been awesome, I strongly feel that DC is ruining what the Marvel Family could be, and should be.

Maybe these are just the rantings of a person who holds on to dearly to memories of the golden-age. But I can't help but feel that many of us JSA fans really want is to see Jay, Alan, Ted, Rex, all of the JSA fighting crime in their true physical prime in a cool art deco WW 2 era with Nazis hiding around every corner. An Earth-2 with a Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman. A 7 Soldiers that has a Green Arrow & Speedy. A universe that is bright and naive and youthful. A universe with a different feel than the one we are currently saddled with full of maimings, rape, & pointless deaths. Not that this proposed Earth-2 couldn't have creepy villains who murder their victims and do many bizarre, eerie things under the cover of night. But have the bad guys BE the bad guys, and the good guys BE the good guys. And this time, try not to kill off every other character.

Why waste time trying to get this All-Star 'Ultimate-wannabe' universe off the ground? If anything, the All-Star universe should be just that. The universe of the All-Star Squadron, All-Star Comics.

How does everyone feel about that?

> > I apologise if this is going over old ground - but do you think it wise or indeed relevant to have the JSA oldguard now remember their Earth 2 legacy?
>
> Relevant? Not really. Not when we had managed to go 20 years without any of that popping up.
> >

Exactly too much time has passed.

> > It seems to me to be fraught with problems... If they remember all of that history wouldn't it drive them batty trying to reconcile it with the world they have been living in?!
>
> You're right. Although I don't know what they can do about it now that they've opened that Pandora's Box.
>

There is still time to put it back in!

> > How does them remembering work in practical terms? I mean to all intents and purposes Kal-L is now a 'present-day' memory for them, he's even buried in their universe - they can presumably visit his grave if they choose to do so! Lois Lanes notebook is now in their museum, while 'Lois Lane' works for the Daily Planet and... Ohh you get the gist of it :-/
> >
> > Is/was it a good idea? And how might the upcoming rumour of further Alternate Earths impact on this already confused state of affairs?
>
> 10 years ago you would have heard me saying how great it is having all of the multiple earths integrated into one cohesive universe. I kind of gushed at the idea that now all of these heroes could interact with greater ease and new stories would arise out of one common thread of history, even at the expense of a few key figures like the golden-age Batman, Superman, etc.
>
IAWTC

> But as the years go by, and DC continues to fiddle with history, constantly sliding the 'starting point' for Kal-El, the Justice League, basically the entire Silver Age further and further away from their Golden Age counterparts, I am beginning to see a never ending quagmire of chaotic continuity. Even by slowly allowing the remaining Golden Age heroes to slip from this mortal coil so as to lessen the bumps in the timeline of the DCU is not working. Not when you've got the same problems now occurring with the Silver Age heroes. One Infinite Crisis, or Countdown, or Zero Hour rolled out every few years is just making things worse.
>

It's comics, I hope they find ways to make it work. Though Didio has said he's had his fill of 90 yr old hereos running around and wants to cap that.

> At this point I think the best thing that DC could do is to separate the universes again. At least separate Earth's 1 & 2. Remove all traces of there having been Golden Age heroes on this earth. Fix it so that Wildcat didn't train Batman & Hawkman didn't serve in both the JLA and JSA. Although something special would have to be designed for certain characters like Black Canary and Zatanna who's parents were originally living on Earth-2. And new version of old characters, like the current Dr. Mid-Nite & Mr. Terrific would have to be Earth-1 counterparts of the originals on Earth-2. This is basically what we have with the Green Lanterns, Flashes, & Atoms.
>

I don't want it to go back.

> But I say, give it a certain bittersweet ending wherein everyone on Earth-1 only remembers the JSA & All Star Squadron as comic book characters. Meanwhile on Earth-2, basically its just the JSA, All-Star Squadron, Freedom Fighters, & the Marvel Family. Everyone is young and healthy. The entire world is still 1940 something. Have the 2 worlds rediscover each other, but for some reason if Earth-1 2007 wants to cross over with Earth-2, it's Earth-2 1940's. Earth-2 would be a universe that is 50-60 years behind Earth-1. Their Earth formed that many years later than ours with only a few historical differences. That or everytime someone tries to cross the dimensional barrier they actually cross a dimensional-time barrier. You can't necessarily access Earth-2 2007. Yes there would be an Infinity, Inc., the future of the JSA, but it would have to be something off-limits to Earth-1 and only accessible by travelling into the future while on Earth-2. Say good bye to Power Girl on Earth-1, reassociate her with Kal-L's later years. Bring back the Huntress on that Earth's 'future'.
>

See, I really disagree here. I enjoy the integrated world so much.
And I'm not one of these fans who only remembers it this way. I collected the All-Star run of the 70's when it came out, so I knew what it was like.
What tends to annoy me now is all these guys writing comics are my age and they seem hell bent on "righting" things back to when they were teens reading comics(like me)with mutiple earths.
And people seem to forget it used to get confusing sometimes which Batman history went with which Batman, etc. That was one reason why DC did what they did. Why do I see this happening again if they go this route?
What DC did in 1986 was remarkable and it has lead to me slowly but surely become more of a DC guy than a Marvel guy. The JSA as highly respected heroes by the big three just makes me smile. I don't have a problem with the re-invention of other earths, but for 20 years now we've had the JSA here first, before Supes, before Bats, and I've really enjoyed that.

> One earth had cowboys like John Thunder, the Trigger Twins, & Matt Savage, Trail Boss. The other comes from darker gunslingers like Jonah Hex & Scalphunter. One Earth will lead to Tommy Tomorrow, the other to Kamandi. One Earth will spawn the LSH, the other... who knows? Also move the Marvel Family to that Earth. While I think the things done with Black Adam these last few years have been awesome, I strongly feel that DC is ruining what the Marvel Family could be, and should be.
>

What Geoff Johns has done with Adam has been remarkable. Talk a redeeming a property!

> Maybe these are just the rantings of a person who holds on to dearly to memories of the golden-age. But I can't help but feel that many of us JSA fans really want is to see Jay, Alan, Ted, Rex, all of the JSA fighting crime in their true physical prime in a cool art deco WW 2 era with Nazis hiding around every corner. An Earth-2 with a Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman. A 7 Soldiers that has a Green Arrow & Speedy. A universe that is bright and naive and youthful. A universe with a different feel than the one we are currently saddled with full of maimings, rape, & pointless deaths. Not that this proposed Earth-2 couldn't have creepy villains who murder their victims and do many bizarre, eerie things under the cover of night. But have the bad guys BE the bad guys, and the good guys BE the good guys. And this time, try not to kill off every other character.
>
See, I don't want this team running around in WW II again. JSA of the last 8 yrs has been one of the best books on the market, and with Johns adding more legacy characters every issue, I'm sure hoping they don't get dumped to WW II again. This modern team, with history and legacy has been a marvelous thing, and this team is one of the top frnachises DC has today. I'll be dissapponted if they dump that all to go back to telling WW II stories with this group.


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