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Post By
zeus

In Reply To
Omar Karindu

Subj: cool. thanks. (nt)
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:50:39 pm EDT
Reply Subj: Re: help me out here... Initiative ADVANCE [SPOILERS]
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 09:39:29 pm EDT

Previous Post

> > > All good points. One problem I see in the running of this camp is that some people (Gyrich, Gauntlet) think they're training soldiers, and some (Yellowjacket, Justice) think they're training super-heroes. They're gonna have to make up thier minds fast if they plan on most of these kids surviving.
> >
> > Exactly...and Gyrich's militaristic and America-first ambitions are already at odds with the rest. He's clearly the guy who picked Gauntlet, after all, and the superheroes runnign the camp don't seem to know Gauntlet personally or anything.
> >
> I wonder if Slott is going to bring Southpaw into this, since she's supposed to be hugely influenced by Gauntlet sometime in the future...
> >
> >
> > > > -- The science staff at the base are all villainous: Curt Connors went mad in Spider-Man some years back, and the German guy's origin is fairly obvious.
> > > >
> > > Help me put 2 and 2 together here Omar. Tell me about the German guy.
> >
> > Generally, mad scientists with German accents in comics invariably turn out to be ex-Nazis...when they don't turn out to be current Nazis. His interest in MVP's likely Super-Soldier Serum powers is another hint in this direction.
> >
> Ah. He actually reminded me of Yellow (Golden?) Claw's German scientist lackey, but I couldn't remember his name. I kinda hope you're wrong. I'd hate for it to be so predictable as all that.

Slott has said so in an interview at ComicbookResources.

>
> > > > Despite those hints, Slott deliberately goes through the classic boot camp/sports film cliches with MVP, setting him up with his little romance, playing up his "decent kid gets a second shot" gimmick, and even giving him his big heroic moment of saving the girl.
> > > >
> This was, I think the point of the whole story, and was probably meant to reinforce the whole idea behind training. A novice with more power than she knew what to do with didn't know how to handle herself, and killed one of the most promising new recruits.

Well, that and the setup with Armory, which made her initially seem both powerful and competent. Some others are suggesting that she was set up so as to have her weapon taken from her; the MVP autopsy scene at the end might play into that as well, if a black ops plot is going on.

My own take is that we're headed for an internal conflict between Justice, Yellowjacket, and War Machine, who want to train new heroes; and Gyrich, Gauntlet, and the scientists, who are there for military and intelligence purposes.

> > > > And then he pays off all the little hints of uneasiness, and plays against his own rep as a light comedy writer, by blowing MVP's head off, and playing Gyrich and the new characters as completely compromised. 9Notice that the death scene is carefully set up so that only Gyrich, Gauntlet, and the Nazi scientist are witnesses to what actually happens.)
> > > >
> > > Right. The "soldier trainers", not the "hero trainers".
> >
> > Exactly.
> >
> > > And on a semi-related note, we haven't seen Bengal or Stingray training yet. If the hero trainers have thier way, Bengal & Stingray will probably get to skip basic training, and get something a bit more customized. If the soldier trainers get thier way, they'll probably have to go through everything just like the new recruits...
> >
> > At least in his Fabian Nicieza appearances -- the ones by his creator -- Bengal barely speaks English and was never captured or jailed so far as I know, so who knows how much the rest know about him. Stingray will be interesting to track, though.
> >
> You know, the last Bengal appearance I remember is from New Warriors, when Punisher showed up. At the end of that story, he seemed ot put his past behind him, and reconcile with that priest who was a Viet Nam soldier. Did he pop up after that, having backslid?

He didn't backslide so much as he'd only really forgiven the priest, as he'd earlier forgiven Willie Lincoln in his first appearance. He went on to the next guy on his list, Will Talltrees, aka Red Wolf, whom he left for dead; he also had a run-in with the Prowler after the Prowler mistook him for an assassin who'd attacked his family.

He did have a spectacularly out-of-character appearance as a hired killer, rather than a vengeance killer, in Chick Dixon's Marvel Knights team comic, but the less said of that the better.



- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It
displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey

> > > > All good points. One problem I see in the running of this camp is that some people (Gyrich, Gauntlet) think they're training soldiers, and some (Yellowjacket, Justice) think they're training super-heroes. They're gonna have to make up thier minds fast if they plan on most of these kids surviving.
> > >
> > > Exactly...and Gyrich's militaristic and America-first ambitions are already at odds with the rest. He's clearly the guy who picked Gauntlet, after all, and the superheroes runnign the camp don't seem to know Gauntlet personally or anything.
> > >
> > I wonder if Slott is going to bring Southpaw into this, since she's supposed to be hugely influenced by Gauntlet sometime in the future...
> > >
> > >
> > > > > -- The science staff at the base are all villainous: Curt Connors went mad in Spider-Man some years back, and the German guy's origin is fairly obvious.
> > > > >
> > > > Help me put 2 and 2 together here Omar. Tell me about the German guy.
> > >
> > > Generally, mad scientists with German accents in comics invariably turn out to be ex-Nazis...when they don't turn out to be current Nazis. His interest in MVP's likely Super-Soldier Serum powers is another hint in this direction.
> > >
> > Ah. He actually reminded me of Yellow (Golden?) Claw's German scientist lackey, but I couldn't remember his name. I kinda hope you're wrong. I'd hate for it to be so predictable as all that.
>
> Slott has said so in an interview at ComicbookResources.
>
> >
> > > > > Despite those hints, Slott deliberately goes through the classic boot camp/sports film cliches with MVP, setting him up with his little romance, playing up his "decent kid gets a second shot" gimmick, and even giving him his big heroic moment of saving the girl.
> > > > >
> > This was, I think the point of the whole story, and was probably meant to reinforce the whole idea behind training. A novice with more power than she knew what to do with didn't know how to handle herself, and killed one of the most promising new recruits.
>
> Well, that and the setup with Armory, which made her initially seem both powerful and competent. Some others are suggesting that she was set up so as to have her weapon taken from her; the MVP autopsy scene at the end might play into that as well, if a black ops plot is going on.
>
> My own take is that we're headed for an internal conflict between Justice, Yellowjacket, and War Machine, who want to train new heroes; and Gyrich, Gauntlet, and the scientists, who are there for military and intelligence purposes.
>
> > > > > And then he pays off all the little hints of uneasiness, and plays against his own rep as a light comedy writer, by blowing MVP's head off, and playing Gyrich and the new characters as completely compromised. 9Notice that the death scene is carefully set up so that only Gyrich, Gauntlet, and the Nazi scientist are witnesses to what actually happens.)
> > > > >
> > > > Right. The "soldier trainers", not the "hero trainers".
> > >
> > > Exactly.
> > >
> > > > And on a semi-related note, we haven't seen Bengal or Stingray training yet. If the hero trainers have thier way, Bengal & Stingray will probably get to skip basic training, and get something a bit more customized. If the soldier trainers get thier way, they'll probably have to go through everything just like the new recruits...
> > >
> > > At least in his Fabian Nicieza appearances -- the ones by his creator -- Bengal barely speaks English and was never captured or jailed so far as I know, so who knows how much the rest know about him. Stingray will be interesting to track, though.
> > >
> > You know, the last Bengal appearance I remember is from New Warriors, when Punisher showed up. At the end of that story, he seemed ot put his past behind him, and reconcile with that priest who was a Viet Nam soldier. Did he pop up after that, having backslid?
>
> He didn't backslide so much as he'd only really forgiven the priest, as he'd earlier forgiven Willie Lincoln in his first appearance. He went on to the next guy on his list, Will Talltrees, aka Red Wolf, whom he left for dead; he also had a run-in with the Prowler after the Prowler mistook him for an assassin who'd attacked his family.
>
> He did have a spectacularly out-of-character appearance as a hired killer, rather than a vengeance killer, in Chick Dixon's Marvel Knights team comic, but the less said of that the better.
>
>
>
> - Omar Karindu
>
> "A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It
> displeased me." -- Doctor Doom
>
> "It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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