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Subj: Re: Seriously?
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 07:58:51 am EDT
Reply Subj: Re: Seriously?
Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 at 09:24:23 pm EDT
> I really don't understand why this is so difficult for people to grasp.
> Clones and cyborgs are not mutually exclusive terms. A clone is a genetic duplicate. A cyborg is an organism that has robotics grafted into it. So, what happens if you take a clone and graft robotics into it? That is what Clor is. They cloned a god, then grafted robotics into him.
Exactly. Being a clone is not exclusive with being a cyborg.
Clor is a clone with robotic parts added.
> I disagree. He had free will to a point. Just because Clor was given a post-hypnotic trigger to stop doesn't mean that his free will was completely removed. Up until he heard those exact words, he had free will. After SHIELD gets Clor back to the helicarrier, Clor is shown in various states of sapience (arguing with people, etc.).
Maybe I should make my point clear: me beef with Clor's "mindlessness" is that Thor *was not* mindless. I wanted to point at the observation that Clor is Thor's clone created with imperfect mind. Stark & Co didn't simply clone Thor, they did it in a way that made Clor subservient to them. It was somewhat like creating a clone gene-engineered to have intelligence much lower than original DNA donor.
I agree that I might've misinterpreted the facts and that Clor has some degree of free will after all... But my general point still stands: Stark & Co created Thor's clone - and then messed somewhat with his mind.
I wonder how many readers defending Clor's creation would do the same, if the deed was done by somebody like Red Skull. If Red Skull created Captain America's clone and then brainwashed him to make him obedient - would that be still considered moral? And that's exactly what was done with Clor.
> IMO, Clor had to be aged very rapidly. He likely has the mind of a child, no doubt butchered by whatever else Tony, Reed, and Hank did to him.
Agreed. And it's really beyond me how anybody might not consider it despicable.
> If Clor has a free will, then they're guilty of enslaving a sapient being, plus they're guilty of sending an amoral killer that simply did whatever it wanted. If Clor doesn't have a free will, then they're guilty of creating a weapon that's run amok. Either way, they're guilty of a horrible crime.
> And according to Quesada (or it might have been Brevoort), we haven't seen the last of Clor. He's said that Clor will be turning up in the upcoming THOR series. I'm not so sure that the thing Hercules stopped was the actual Clor.
Good point. There's also the possibility that Marvel didn't suspect there will be such controversy regarding Thor. Maybe there was some silent change of plans - and Marvel's trying to brush Clor under the carpet and make him just another LMD?