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In Reply To
MysteryMan

Subj: Re: Some of this logic is so silly it amazes me....
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 09:55:41 am CDT
Reply Subj: Some of this logic is so silly it amazes me....
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 09:23:32 am CDT

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> > > > ***A skrull would have pushed for the chaos that was pre-SHRA.
> >
> >
> >
> > ***The skrull situation seems to stem back from a looooongg time ago before there was a SHRA...
>
> Yes, and note they didn't try to take over during THAT time, because of the fragmentary nature of the heroes, ONLY after the SHRA was in force.

Because they INFILTRATE first...it takes time...thats the way the Skrulls work...seriously 1st time this argument those of you who are anti-SHRA say it's SHRA's fault they were so easy to infiltrate...shown this cannot be true it looks like your looking for another reason the blame SHRA.

> >as far as the effectiveness of the act itself...hell it was said in Civil War itself that crime had gone down like 40% or some number...
>
> Have you noticed any particualr drop in villainous activity in the MU? Can't say that I have.

Yes...over and over it has been mentioned...but guess what...those comics we read...they arnt going to focus on all the down time...they are going to focus on what crime there is left.

> >there are now teams every where in the country and not just NY,
>
> Yes, and that means there's a Skrull agent within each group of heroes. They might have been better positioned to take over NY before, now they're better positioned to take over the COUNTRY!

No...they could have infiltrated anywhere with the chaos that was pre-SHRA.

> >and it doesn't just have to do with super villains but when people just need help...they have a genuine registered hero there to help them...It is because of the SHRA all the eggs are not in one place.
>
> I think you're misreading my point. The SHRA regulation has created an monolithic infrastructure for heroic activity which never existed before. By infiltrating that infrastructure, the Skrulls are in a vastly better position to strike than the pre-SHRA set up would allow, since it provides them with a framework for control, communication, and intel undreamed of before the SHRA.

They have shown it's anything BUT a monolithic structure. SHIELD is separate from The Thuinderbolts...is spearate from the Initiative...is Separate from the Avengers...is separate from the armed forces...is separate from the CIA...etc...

There are just requiements that those with the ability to destroy buildings...learn and train to not do so accidently.

> Look at it this way. In the past, if the Skrulls wanted to invade, the would have to fight the Avengers, then they would still have to attack the Defenders separately, because there was no correllation between the two teams, and the Fantastic Four, and the X-Men etc... A war on multiple fronts, each with their own backup plans, intel and technology to rely on.

Yeah thats great they can pick them off one at a time instead...thats the EXACT set-up that allowed the Earths teams to get infiltrated in the 1st place.

> Now the lucky Skrulls can, in one fell swoop, disable the internal communications which ALL these teams rely on, and by infiltrating the core, already have agents in those teams, who are in much better positions to share intel and communications with each other.

Well your one fell swoop didnt happen...they picked off the 2 Avengers teams that were isolated from others...the Initiative teams were responding in each of their areas...comm may be damaged but they still seem to be arriving.

> Advantage Skrulls...

Your right....thanks to the chaos that exised before they have set up and were ready to take us down period...if only they had enforced SHRA sooner.

> > > ***The skrull situation seems to stem back from a looooongg time ago before there was a SHRA...
> >
> > Yes, and note they didn't try to take over during THAT time, because of the fragmentary nature of the heroes, ONLY after the SHRA was in force.
>
> Because they INFILTRATE first...it takes time...thats the way the Skrulls work...seriously 1st time this argument those of you who are anti-SHRA say it's SHRA's fault they were so easy to infiltrate...shown this cannot be true it looks like your looking for another reason the blame SHRA.

I'm applying logic, if the Skrulls were in a better position to take over PRE SHRA, they would have done. They've been on Earth for a while now, in fact why bother to take over someone who is pivotal to the foundation of the SHRA like Henry Pym, if it's not something they feel is to their advantage?

> > >as far as the effectiveness of the act itself...hell it was said in Civil War itself that crime had gone down like 40% or some number...
> >
> > Have you noticed any particualr drop in villainous activity in the MU? Can't say that I have.
>
> Yes...over and over it has been mentioned...but guess what...those comics we read...they arnt going to focus on all the down time...they are going to focus on what crime there is left.

Fair enough.

> > >there are now teams every where in the country and not just NY,
> >
> > Yes, and that means there's a Skrull agent within each group of heroes. They might have been better positioned to take over NY before, now they're better positioned to take over the COUNTRY!
>
> No...they could have infiltrated anywhere with the chaos that was pre-SHRA.

But they'd have infiltrate them ONE AT A TIME, unreliably, and the fluidity of team structures meant that they had no clue if the team would even survive. Would it have been worth infiltrating Thor's Earth Force for example, or the Crazy Eight? At the time, possibly, in retrospect, not likely.

> > I think you're misreading my point. The SHRA regulation has created an monolithic infrastructure for heroic activity which never existed before. By infiltrating that infrastructure, the Skrulls are in a vastly better position to strike than the pre-SHRA set up would allow, since it provides them with a framework for control, communication, and intel undreamed of before the SHRA.
>
> They have shown it's anything BUT a monolithic structure. SHIELD is separate from The Thuinderbolts...is spearate from the Initiative...is Separate from the Avengers...is separate from the armed forces...is separate from the CIA...etc...

The Skrulls have never bothered with the armed forces and CIA before that I recall, so mentioning them as important because of their separateness seems unnecessary.

Three of the groups you mention are all subservient to the US Government; The Thunderbolts, The Initative and the Avengers, so have a central command set up somewhere down the line. And SHIELD is run by the man who controls the only database of every single superhero identity in the USA, and so has information, by default, on the Initative.

The Initative in and of itself, summarises just about every active Regisetered superhero going, that's 50 superteams in one go, nicely spread around the country, and with guaranteed access to Government facilities, since they are all governement funded and resourced.

> > Look at it this way. In the past, if the Skrulls wanted to invade, the would have to fight the Avengers, then they would still have to attack the Defenders separately, because there was no correllation between the two teams, and the Fantastic Four, and the X-Men etc... A war on multiple fronts, each with their own backup plans, intel and technology to rely on.
>
> Yeah thats great they can pick them off one at a time instead...thats the EXACT set-up that allowed the Earths teams to get infiltrated in the 1st place.

But again, they didn't think "Great we've got someone in the Defenders and the Avengers, let's take over". They waited, they have taken advantage of the opportunities the SHRA offered "If you have powers and have never used them, come to us, and we'll assign you to a place in the Initiative after we've trained you" So we can have any number of new "heroes", in reality Skrull infiltrators, being INVITED to become part of the organisation they seek to destroy. It's too good to resist. It's like the original Thunderbolts concept on a nationwide scale!

If a guy shows up and joins, say, New Warriors, he can get info on the New Warriors, if a guy shows up and joins the Iniative, he is part of a massive organisation which spans the country.

> > Now the lucky Skrulls can, in one fell swoop, disable the internal communications which ALL these teams rely on, and by infiltrating the core, already have agents in those teams, who are in much better positions to share intel and communications with each other.
>
> Well your one fell swoop didnt happen...they picked off the 2 Avengers teams that were isolated from others...

Which given their respective power levels, and rallying ability, makes sense, but it was a co-ordinated assault.

>the Initiative teams were responding in each of their areas...comm may be damaged but they still seem to be arriving.

But thanks to having Skrullowjacket in place, they don't seem to have any unified command structure in place to make USE of the comms they do have, whilst the Skrulls are better coordinated.

> > Advantage Skrulls...
>
> Your right....thanks to the chaos that exised before they have set up and were ready to take us down period...if only they had enforced SHRA sooner.

Heh.


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