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Post By
Jared

In Reply To
Nitz the Bloody

Subj: Re: " Maybe "? ;)
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 at 12:51:36 am EST (Viewed 46 times)
Reply Subj: Re: " Maybe "? ;)
Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 at 10:04:06 pm EST (Viewed 129 times)

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> Maybe Nitz the Bloody was on to something when he condemned the public in the Marvel Universe as a collection of idiots who make the citizens of Springfield on The Simpsons look intelligent. 

True, but I maintain that it's been that way since the 1960's ( when the Comics Code forbid explicit questioning of authority, though Stan and his collaborators snuck plenty of the implicit kind in ). The makeup of Springfield excluding Lisa may be more stupid than the real American people, but they're still satirizing the many forms of mass ignorance in the real world. The excesses of Homer and co. merely take it to a humorous extreme.

I have no problem with Marvel exaggerating the stupidity of the American people, because there's more than enough material to work with there. Ellis, the original author of Norman-as-legitimate-politician, did this especially well in Thunderbolts; Norman's serial killing as the Green Goblin being excused by a disease he overcame through prayer ( and while anyone who didn't get that reference wasn't paying attention, it still was a good way to satirize Christianity-as-arsehole license ). It's only when the satire is done badly, like Civil War, that it becomes a problem...


>
> > Maybe Nitz the Bloody was on to something when he condemned the public in the Marvel Universe as a collection of idiots who make the citizens of Springfield on The Simpsons look intelligent. 
> True, but I maintain that it's been that way since the 1960's ( when the Comics Code forbid explicit questioning of authority, though Stan and his collaborators snuck plenty of the implicit kind in ). The makeup of Springfield excluding Lisa may be more stupid than the real American people, but they're still satirizing the many forms of mass ignorance in the real world. The excesses of Homer and co. merely take it to a humorous extreme.
> I have no problem with Marvel exaggerating the stupidity of the American people, because there's more than enough material to work with there. Ellis, the original author of Norman-as-legitimate-politician, did this especially well in Thunderbolts; Norman's serial killing as the Green Goblin being excused by a disease he overcame through prayer ( and while anyone who didn't get that reference wasn't paying attention, it still was a good way to satirize Christianity-as-arsehole license ). It's only when the satire is done badly, like Civil War, that it becomes a problem...

When it comes to exaggerating the stupidity of the public's reaction to anyone who looks even the slightest bit different (and your remarks about how mutants and other people like Spider-Man and the Hulk repeatedly suffer attacks for being 'different' could just as easily apply to Sleepwalker, who early in his career was confused and angered by the way people attacked him even after he'd rescued them from muggers or robbers, to the point where Alyssa Conover feared he'd stop altogether) then that's part and parcel of the Marvel tradition. 

I'd still argue, though, that that comparing Norman Osborn to Hitler is still a case of apples and oranges.  From everything I can recall, Hitler was not already known as a mass murderer and sociopathic criminal by the time he seized power (and things like the beer hall putsch could be easily spun as rebelling against the indolent and corrupt democracy he had seized power from in the beginning), while Norman is already a known criminal who's publicly known as having murdered multiple people.  Same thing with George W. Bush-and we'll stay the HELL away from discussing what kind of "crimes" he might or might not be responsible for-he's never killed anyone, never raped anyone, nothing like that. 

Even if Norman really had found God and turned over a new leaf, that still doesn't justify recruiting a collection of known criminals, many of whom are known serial killers or terrorists-and in the case of Venom, a known cop killer-and giving them official political power as law enforcement agents.  Ordinary, non-powered police departments and military organizations have sanity checks to filter out the lunatics who might try and enlist to get some destructive power...so how is it suddenly alright to suddenly put together a whole paramilitary unit of repeat offenders? 

It's like creating an entire Special Forces branch out of the lifers at Attica, headed by Charles Manson with David Koresh, Aileen Wuornos, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ed Gein, the Columbine killers, and the Unabomber as his lieutenants.  A whole band of maniacs, sociopaths and high-risk offenders with official government sanction, legal access to firepower, and the ability to use it...
Someone care to explain how that's a good idea again? 

Then there's the fact that anyone who gets superhuman powers, even if it's completely by accident, ends up being required by law to join the Initiative and runs the risk of being called up for government service whether they like it or not...

This is a topic for another thread, but as a Canadian I'll just state that I never thought I'd see the day when (fictional) Americans would approve of laws requiring their fellow citizens to being called up for mandatory government service and being forced to use their abilities whether they wanted to or not, and generally being segregated from the rest of society.  I mean, even the Mutant Registration Act didn't state that mutants could run the risk of being called up at any time to use their powers in government service without giving them a choice in the matter! 


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