Previous Post Quote: Well I still hate Bendis, but yes Byrne did lay the groundwork. Quote: However with all the reboots/retcons, I think we have the Bronze age Vision back, don't we? Quote: However I still applaud that storyline as it did give us the return of the original Torch as I remembered reading Vision learning his origin from Immortus and wondering just why was Immortus being so kind and that I smelled a long term plan of some kind, as well as the scent of a rat in the form of Immortus. Yeah I hated the idea of Vision being Jim Hammond. He was nothing like Jim Hammond. Quote: Of course the problem is that too many writers don't know what to do with the Android Torch so they either blow him up and leave him "dead" for years until an anniversary event brings him back, or they just let him fade into the background since they all seem to think the MU can't have two or more Torches, which makes no sense. Quote: Multiple Captain Americas: the original, Captain Stevil, the Falcon and USAgent. Quote: Multiple Iron Man: the original plus War Machine Quote: Multiple THOR: original, the current fake-THOR, Beta Ray Bill Quote: Multiple Hulks: original, Cho, Red Hulk, She Hulk, Red She hulk, Abomination, A-Bomb.... Quote: As to Wanda loving the Vision yet not loving Wonder Man for so long, that also made little sense to me. Vision's mind is Simon Williams brain waves copied into Vision's brain circuits so in effect he was Simon Williams, albeit a copied version that lived his life in an android form, then the original version is mutated into a super hero yet still has the same emotions and thought processes for the most part so Simon loving Wanda made sense. I always felt Wanda dated Simon because she couldn't really get Vision back. She didn't want the original...she wanted the guy she was married to. I don't buy that she ever loved Simon. Simon's kind of a male bimbo really without any depth. Vision has some personality traits I guess he got from Simon but his life experiences (including being a robot) are his alone. Reverend Meteor (not that I liked Wanda with Vision. But Simon's a tool)

Going off some dusty memories but Johnny Storm was called the Human Torch by Stan Lee as they apparently didn't want to think of another name to use and that Marvel didn't at the time want to bring back any of the golden age characters like Torch, Cap and Namor.

Then fan demand spoke and we get Cap retconned into being on ice since the war and Namor wandering amnesiac until Johnny stumbled across him.

But the Torch was left behind until Immortus gives Vision a journey of "Discovery" and we learned that Vision is really a reformatted Torch.

Ultron forces Torch's creator to reformat his body and remove the flame powers and give him density control, the solar jewel on the head, the laser eyes, but it was Ultron that had to erase his memory banks and program him with Simon's brain waves. Thus the Torch was considered dead.

Yet things didnt seem right on that origin trip that Vision had as the Torch was supposedly buried in the funeral scenario of the Mad Thinker that trapped Toro and led to Toro's demise, a demise that made no sense by the way. How does someone with flame powers and can absorb flame perish in a fiery explosion? Plus there is the abandoned plot thread of the Professor Raymond from Power Pack who exhibited flame powers....

So there was apparently a Torch in a grave and a Torch reformatted into the Vision. I liked the explanation that was given that Ultron built the Vision from spare parts left over from the Torch being built. That made sense.

Then came Avengers Forever were Immortus is again used....and he temporally split Torch into two Torches, one becomes the Vision one remains the Torch thus the initial origin story of Vision is preserved.

What a Gordian knot the Torch has become.