Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

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Iron Man Unit 007

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Subj: Re: Thomas and Englehart
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 at 07:52:15 pm EST (Viewed 191 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Thomas and Englehart
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 at 09:25:12 am EST (Viewed 191 times)

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      Looking in The Official Marvel Index to The Avengers #7 (1988) I see that this is actually something that touches on the Mad Thinker's and the original Human Torch's appearance in Fantastic Four Annual #4 (1966 - the Golden Age Torch's first modern appearance). The scenes of the original Human Torch going into the desert to die after the end of his 1950s adventures and that of the Mad Thinker finding his body and reviving him (this takes several months) are shown in flashback by Steve Englehart in Avengers #134 (1975), presumably at least in part based on information contained in FF Annual #4. In #135 Englehart added the flashback sequences where Ultron-5 broke into the Thinker's lab to abduct the Torch (inert again after the fight in FF Annual #4) and at the same time erase Quasimodo's memories of Ultron (to square things with Quasimodo's appearance in FF Annual #5, ah the joys of retconning!), of Ultron-5 locating Phineas Horton to help him revive the Torch and convert him to the Vision, and of Ultron-5 killing Horton and then transferring Wonder Man's memories (recorded by Henry Pym) to the Vision.

    I was with you until the last 11 words. As I've noted elsewhere, I'm softening to the Hammond-was-rebuilt-into-the-Vision concept. I can actually see it as a Japanese cartoon. (No, I haven't softened to Immortus and the Space Phantoms.) But Simon William's brain patterns? Why were these necessary? Did the story explain it?

Yes. Phineas Horton disobeyed Ultron's order to erase the Torch's memories, and thus when the Vision was activated it at first ran amuck with his unfamiliar new powers, damaging the lab and provoking Ultron to fly into a rage and kill Horton. The Vision/Torch then tried to avenge his "father", but unfortunately lost the fight, and Ultron knocked him out and transferred Wonder Man's memories into him to replace the Torch's. Then, when the Vision was revived again he remembered nothing of Horton and thus was ready to serve Ultron (but only for a time, as it turned out). So basically it was because Ultron was too lazy to build a personality for the Vision from scratch.

    Why had Hank Pym recorded the brain patterns in the first place?

Beats me. Maybe there was an in-story explanation, but I don't recall. But then Hank isn't always easy to figure out. Why did he build Ultron-1 with the capability to attack his maker and selectively erase his memories? ;\-\)

    Incidentally, "Immortus and the Space Phantoms" would be a cool name for a band!


I think Wonder man's brain waves were recorded before he had "died" after the treatment Zemo used to make him super powered "killed" him.

Turned out he was really incubating and evolving into the Wonder Man we would come to know.

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