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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
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Iron Man Unit 007

Member Since: Thu Oct 20, 2011
Posts: 4,980
Subj: Android Torch, the Vision and Wonder Man's memories
Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 at 04:55:00 am EST (Viewed 254 times)
Reply Subj: Android Torch, the Vision and Immortus
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 at 08:07:38 pm EST (Viewed 252 times)

    Okay the thread below is getting a bit lengthy so I figured I'd post this here.

Okay, I'll join you here, but will include some stuff that is not covered by your heading...

    Years ago in the Golden Age there was an android Human Torch. He overloaded and shut down in the 50's and was gathering dust.

    Timely Comics becomes Marvel Comics.

    The Fantastic Four are created and Johnny Storm is now the human torch.

    Years later in FF annual 4, the Mad Thinker reactivated the android Torch and he fight Johnny and ends up deactivated again. His body is left in the Thinker's lab by Reed as Reed stated a lab was where he was born and should rest......okay that is just stupid writing. Reed should have at least taken the android Torch to FF HQ for storage and study.

    In the Submariner series at the time, around issue 14 (I think), the Torch's old partner Toro was lured into a trap by the Thinker who had somehow enslaved a town and staged a funeral for the android Torch as bait. Toro gets captured and enslaved, breaks free and perishes in a fiery explosion as he attempted to destroy the Thinker's rocket ship.
    Go figure....a character with immunity to fire and can absorb flame/heat killed in a fiery explosion.......

AFAIK that was in Sub-Mariner #15 (1969).


    So we have the android Torch buried for years in a forgotten and unknown grave in a small town cemetery and of course the town's memory of it is wiped.

    Yet Ultron apparently confronted the Thinker, Ultron wanted an android to make as his own and Thinker tells him of the lab where the Torch was left after his failed attack on the FF. Ultron finds the Torch there and takes him to Horton for reformatting and the Vision is created.

I've now checked in Wonder Man's wikipedia article and then in the extremely comprehensive The Official Marvel Index to The Avengers #3 (1987).

It turns out that the Vision having Simon Williams' memories actually dates back to the classic "Even an Android Can Cry" (Avengers #58, 1968) by Roy Thomas and John Buscema. (I hadn't re-read that story in ages and so had forgotten those details). This contains a flashback to Wonder Man's death (Avengers #9) which retcons in that Iron Man and Hank Pym (as Giant-Man) recorded his brain patterns and put them into storage in Pym's lab for the eventuality that they would find a way of reviving Wonder Man's body. We also see the origin of Ultron-1, which ends with ends with Ultron hypnotizing his "father" Hank Pym to forget about him and into abandoning his lab. In #58 Hank Pym (as Goliath) discovers the gap in his own memories in the course of the examination of the Vision (he talks about his old synthozoid experiments and then is stumped for an answer when Hawkeye asks what their ultimate results were) and decides to revisit his abandoned, boarded-up lab. Using the memory bank there, he sees what happened when he built Ultron-1. Iron Man then discovers that the tape with Wonder Man's memories is missing, and the Avengers come to the conclusion that the Vision is a synthetic body with Wonder Man's mind. (Okay, that may be based on circumstantial evidence, but it's good enough for comicbooks).


    Truly this is as big a Gordian Knot as the continuity/retcons to Captain America and the Red Skull from the Golden Age to the Marvel Universe.

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