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Superman's Pal

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,101
In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 17,840
Subj: Re: [Key plot point. DON'T READ IT before watching the movie or your pleasure is ruined. You've been warned]
Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 at 01:11:45 am EDT (Viewed 260 times)
Reply Subj: [Key plot point. DON'T READ IT before watching the movie or your pleasure is ruined. You've been warned]
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 at 01:25:57 pm EDT (Viewed 335 times)

Previous Post

    Captain America's ending seemed to break the rules of time travel that the film had set up. As the Ancient One noted, once the Time Stone was removed from her reality and taken to the future (whereas it was not before), it would create a branching timeline. That wouldn't affect the core MCU reality; however, it would have terrible repercussions for the new alternate reality, which is why Steve Rogers returned the Stones. Except that Rogers went back in time and spent a lifetime with Peggy Carter. That should have also generated an alternate reality and not have impacted the core timeline except that Rogers shows up in the core timeline as an old man. Similarly, Loki escaping after the first Avengers' movie story instead of being captured for the events of Thor: The Dark World and Ragnarok would also result in an alternate timeline for that Loki. Otherwise, it would have drastically affected the core reality's history with the Reality Stone and the Space Stone/Tesseract. I predict the Loki escape scene will lead to this version of Loki running about the core MCU, which would unfortunately undo much of his character arc, one of the most interesting ones in the MCU. Similarly, reviving Gamora by having a past version of herself come to the future seems awkward because it retroactively eliminates all the character building we saw between her and Quill in the two Guardians of the Galaxy movies. Will we have to go through that again in the third film? In any case, Cap's ending does have a poetic quality to it. The present/future version of himself spends his life with Peggy and then the past version of himself gets revived from the ice and does all the superheroing while the retired version just sits back and watches, having gone through it already.

You're absolutely right.

IMO, the whole scene with the Ancient One has one purpose only : to prepare the audience to see alternate realities (even nasty ones) in the upcoming future. It is no longer a M.C.U. It is a M.C.Multiverse.

IMO, it means that Venom, the FF & the X-Men (and Doom, Kang, Immortus, the Scarlet Centurion, the Squadron Supreme, Marvel 2099 & the Captain Britain Corps ?) can now appear in the M.C.Multiverse without further explanation.

It is made absolutely clear that the Avengers, Rocket, Nebula and Thanos created multiple alternate realities by their actions.

In 2012, Future Cap fought an Alternate Cap even though he never should have met himself in the first place and he told the Alternate Cap that Bucky is alive.
The same year, Future Tony lost an Alternate Tesseract that an Alternate Loki used to escape.
Future Bruce was not aware of these two mistakes when he promised to the Ancient One of 2012 that the Future Avengers would be very careful to bring back the gems at the right time.
(1st split)

In 2013, Future Rocket stole one version of the Aether and knocked out an Alternate Jane Foster in the process.
(2nd split)

In 2014, Future Nebula accidently warned an Alternate Nebula, an Alternate Thanos and an Alternate Gamora of the upcoming future. Future Hawkeye & Future Black Widow met the Red Skull and Hawkeye recovered an Alternate Soul Stone on Vormir before Thanos in 2018. The sacrifice of Future Black Widow happened in 2014, before it happened to Gamora in 2018.
(3rd split)

In 2023 (2018 + 5 years), the alternate 2014 versions of Thanos, Nebula, Gamora & the Black Order followed the tracks of the Future Avengers to the future. In the process, Alternate Nebula was killed by Future Nebula. Alternate Gamora staid in the future. Alternate Thanos was killed in 2023, even though Infinity War Thanos had already been killed in 2018.

Ironically, Tony & Nat' are apparently both "definitely dead" but an Alternate 2014 Gamora replaced the 2018 dead Gamora in 2023.

I don't think that Future Cap could have come back to 1945. He cannot use the Infinity Gauntlet without dying and he was supposed to bring back the Stones to when they came from. IMO, he went back to 2012, 2013, 2014 and then, he staid in 1970.
You're right. If he staid in the past, it might have been in a 1970 alternate timeline and not the same timeline than the 2023 Future.
We are supposed to believe that Future Cap somehow "fixed" the past and that there is only one timeline left but it seems unlikely since there is an Alternate 2014 Gamora in the 2023 timeline.

Storytellers are professional tricksters & cheaters (to paraphrase American Gods and Anansi Boys). So, yes, I totally agree that the creators of the movie bended their own rules.

I guess I wasn't clear if Tony killed Thanos and his army or just sent them back to their own time. If he did kill them with a snap, they could always be unsnapped to set it right. Erase their memories with the Mind Stone. Maybe someone strong like Thor could wield the gauntlet. Most of their shenanigans in the past could be fixed, memories erased and such. The big changes that stand out are past Nebula being killed, Loki escaping with a Tesseract, and Steve living in the past. Did Gamora stay in the future or go back home?

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