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Subj: Re: ENDGAME!
Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 at 07:50:39 am EDT (Viewed 144 times)
Reply Subj: Re: ENDGAME!
Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 at 06:28:53 pm EDT (Viewed 154 times)
Quote:I'm not sure the Steve/Peggy relationship IS an alternate timeline.
Neither am I, but I would say it fulfills Occam's Razor by being the simplest answer.
Quote:In winter Soldier, it was said that Steve saved many people, including the man who would become her wife.
You meant Peggy's husband, right? I take this as an argument in favor of the alternate time line explanation, based on Occam's Razor.
Quote:So, maybe that was Steve. Maybe she was briefed on everything to keep up the flow of time.
Many convolutions flow from this. What did Steve do for all those years when he was supposedly dead? He had to have stayed hidden from public view. What did he do after his younger self was saved from the ice cube? Once again he had to have stayed hidden from public view. I suppose an exciting story could be written around this premise, if we assume Steve continued his heroic activities but under a different guise - perhaps Nomad? This version of Nomad would have had to have been 100% covert. Utterly unknown to the general public and even unknown - utterly - to the FBI, CIA, NSA, and above all, both SHIELD and HYDRA. Sure, it's a fictional web that could be woven. But it's not the simplest explanation.
Still, older Steve having a super-secret Nomad identity in parallel with younger Steve having a very public Captain America identity is kind of a cool idea.
Quote:Or maybe not. Maybe there is a reality where Steve fixes everything. No HYDRA in SHIELD, no Thanos.
He could fix HYDRA and SHIELD. I don't think he could fix Thanos. But Peggy died before Thanos had any of the stones, so really, older Steve had no need to fix Thanos. That''s what his younger self was for.
Quote:I don't know. However, him appearing in the timeline at the end would imply something along the lines of keeping things going occurred.
Unless he had the ability to jump between time lines, which I think he must have had, because he had to go get the Tesseract from Loki.
Quote:Especially since it was said it was the absence of the Infinity Gems that causes divergent timelines. With them all back where they came from, how would it diverge?
I think the underlying theory is that altering the past would cause divergent time lines. The absence of the Infinity Stones would simply be one way, albeit a bombastic one, of altering the past.
The absence of the Time Stone is a special case. Its absence would apparently, according to the Ancient One, open the door to some demonic horde that would do very bad things.
Quote:My guess however, is that the announced Falcon/Bucky Disney Plus show will start with Steve's funeral.
Yes. I think that can be expected as an obvious but unavoidable necessity.
My main question around Sam at the moment is how he'll get the necessary training to be Captain America. I guess Bucky will train him. Somebody has to. Right this minute, he's not good enough. Not to be Captain America.
Quote:It interests and moves me a lot that no fewer than three of the universe's saviors have (or had) daughters: Scott, Clint, and Tony. I have daughters so this touches me on a very personal level.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I am just curious. Why does having a daughter matter? I mean a kid is a kid, and it is a 50/50 chance you'll have one or the other.
But I personally have daughters and no sons. So for me, it's the father/daughter dynamic that moves me.
Quote:I am genuinely interested as someone without daughters, and raised in a home with only brothers (but whose mother is quite the second wave feminist).
Am I guessing right that you have no kids of your own yet? If so, I would guess you probably relate to the Marvel heroes who are sons with living parental figures, notably Peter Parker. My father passed away but my mother is still alive. Nevertheless, I was never very close to my parents. I don't really think of myself as a son, although of course I am.
Quote:Is it kind of like how I am a bit excited that since in Spider-man: Life Story, he is only a year older than my Dad, and he may end up having a kid my age in the series, or is it something deeper?
Probably. I didn't know that Peter Parker may end up once again as a dad.
Quote:Captain Marvel was tremendous. See why I said she was Marvel's Superman? I was surprised yet moved by the scene near the end, where all the heroes who stood up to join her were women. What a girl power moment! And it cements in everyone's minds what Captain Marvel means to the MCU. She is the great central rallying point for girl power. Not to mention the fact that her movie has joined the billion dollar club.
The girl power moment seemed a bit forced. I know, I know, there are a bunch of ###holes on the internet who are going to be pissed off, and fine they are dicks.
Or at the very least they're incomprehensible to me personally. But so many things come back to the fact that I have daughters. Every time I see a girl power moment, I cheer, because I have daughters.
The obviousness of the moment just pulled me out of it. I am fine with the moment, but I just with it had been shot more fluidly... if you catch my drift.
I completely understand that. It pulled me out too. But then it shot me back in. I had integrated the meta with the experience of the moment. I also think it's possible the women might have instinctively gravitated toward one another. I've seen women do that in real life, like at funerals.
Quote:It was however very much a part of something I liked about the scene as a whole... everyone got their moment, yet it s the big three that gave the final fight.
I agree, except I would say Big 4 to include the Hulk.
Quote:Team effort. If you were a protagonist in a Marvel film (even secondary) you were valuable to the big win. Right on.
I totally agree.
Quote:I guess that was sort of my thing. It should have been a Star Trek moment. No attention called. No trumpets blazing, just "no shit they are important to the fight."
I think the vibe was more Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, or Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, both of which seemed made for trumpets.
Quote:Although your Superman comparison does raise some eyebrows for me.
Quote:Full disclosure, I have not seen Captain Marvel. I have only seen 8/22 of the MCU films in theaters. I got off th majority of this bus a long time ago.
Captain Marvel is really good.
Quote:So, maybe its a masterpiece, maybe it is garbage. no idea.
Somewhere in between those extremes.
Quote:But, Superman has always been antithetical to the Marvel Universe. Every time they try to put one in it goes awry, and is quickly forgotten.
I don't know that they ever really try. What they give us instead are bizarre like Sentry or low key like Blue Marvel or edgy like Hyperion or a very different archetype like Gladiator. The MCU Captain Marvel is the first Marvel hero who really gives us that "Here I come to save the day!" feeling like Mighty Mouse or Underdog or, yes, Superman. The whole reason DC's movie Supermen have been failing is because DC is afraid to commit to the Mighty Mouse/Underdog vibe. But that vibe was Superman's first.
Quote:I think Stan Lee designed it that way. If she truly is the Superman of the series (And it did look that way) that could be a potential problem in the future.
It could be. We'll see how Marvel handles it. I'm starting to wonder if the next Captain Marvel movie might bring in the Fantastic Four. (But unfortunately, I think when Marvel talks glowingly about the Fantastic Four, what they really mean, in every syllable, is Doctor Doom. I think it's Doctor Doom they believe in, not the Fantastic Four. And no, I don't see Doctor Doom appearing in the next Captain Marvel film.)
Quote:I am so glad Tony dusted Thanos. He needed to be dusted. I was worried there, for a few seconds, that Thanos wouldn't get his vastly deserved oblivion. But he did. I blurted out, "Thank God!"
Quote:Granted, I saw that on Tuesday, and time marches on.
Quote:But Tony was pretty dead-set on saving his daughter... no matter the cost.
And he did.
Quote:Do we know he didn't just dust them back to their time?
No, they were actually dusted. Became dust.
Quote:Just doing the same thing would mean no Guardians of the Galaxy, no Infinity War, and more than likely, no Morgan Stark.
It means alternate time lines!
Of course, if he was briefed on branching timelines... who knows. That was part of the issue that has everyone scratching their heads.
The heroes didn't expect past Thanos to appear in the present and almost ruin everything, so they didn't plan for it. Except one hero, of course. Doctor Strange. He knew full well how things would unfold. How they had to unfold if victory was going to be plucked from the ashes of defeat.
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