Previous Post Quote: True, true, but if done well a story like the Death of Superman can be quite compelling. You can explore what Superman's friends and the world would do without him. That might work for me if I cared even half as much about Superman's supporting cast as I care about Superman. But I don't. I would never buy a comic about Lois, Jimmy, and Perry, if Superman didn't appear in it too. Quote: That's why I actually thought the death of Reed Richards and Doctor Doom in the De Falco days was a good idea too. They were gone for so long that it really explored what it would be like without them. Here again, the FF without Reed Richards isn't the FF, for me. One thing I've recently learned about myself, where the FF is concerned, is that I'm a fan of the foursome. I used to think I was mainly a Reed fan, or at other times in my life a Ben fan, but I've come to realize I was wrong about myself. I need the foursome. I learned this by reading the FF Masterworks volumes 4, 5, and 6. Quote: Whether either of this storylines or others like them were good or successful is definitly up for debate but I think it is silly to dismiss them on principle without actually reading them. I dismiss comics on principle all the time! Heck, right now I'm dismissing the entire output of modern Marvel and modern mainstream DC, as well as Image, Dark Horse, Dynamite, and IDW. I'm not buying any modern comics at all except Thunderbolts (because I moderate the board) and Vertigo titles. I'm doing this on principle. I insist the subject matter of a comic book be as 21st century as the aesthetic. The only line of comics that really is focused on 21st century subjects (no 20th century nostalgia at all) is Vertigo. I also insist the aesthetic of a comic book be as *20th* century as its subject matter. Since super-heroes are a 20th century subject, I want them produced with a 20th century aesthetic. This doesn't exist except in reprints. So I only buy super-hero comics published in the 20th century. I only buy reprints. My point in all of the foregoing is that I always have, still do, and always will buy comics (or leave them unbought) on principle.

I guess we are just thinking of the phrase "On Principle" differently, but I agree with all the other stuff you said, so I'll just focus on that.

You said you "insist the aesthetic of a comic book be as *20th* century as its subject matter."

I think I agree with this, but again it's a phrase I wouldn't have thought of.

the way I'd put it is that we both like the aesthetic of comics from the Silver and Bronze age. What makes a comic a comic from the Silver Age. The short answer is that it was written in the 60's. The long answer is that it was a product of it's time. The culture of the 60's was unique like every time is.

Even if Marvel and DC consciously tried to make Silver Age style comics they couldn't do it. Even if done well (Like Untold Tales of Spider-man" it is self-aware and nostalgic.

Just like you can't make a Film Noir movie today. You could study Film Noir down to the finest detail and set your lighting up just like real Film Noir movies did but you still won't be able to make a Film Noir movie. No matter what it will still be Neo-Noir.

So you either have to accept the new aesthetic whether we are talking about present day comics or 80's and 90's comics. I loved the 80's and 90's comics until somewhere in the mid 90's when I felt like the wheels were coming off the Marvel bus. Everything was big boobs and big guns. Or maybe I was just in High School and thinking about real girls instead of Sue Storm.

And now I can pick up a new comic here or there and appreciate the story telling, but I just have no connection to it.

It's like the phrase "you can't go home again." I remember one time when I came home from college I thought, I should go back and visit my High School. I really don't know why my mind is going to High School again (must be from thinking about the 90's). And I did, and it was the weirdest thing. Suddenly that building I knew so well for four years seemed absolutely alien. I didn't belong there anymore. That's sort of how I feel when I read modern comics.

PPP