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Iron Man Unit 007

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,855
In Reply To
Superman's Pal

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,676
Subj: Re: Beast Wars/Beast Machines
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 at 11:18:32 pm CST (Viewed 267 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Beast Wars/Beast Machines
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 at 03:11:51 pm CST (Viewed 275 times)

Previous Post

    So, anyone have fond memories of these two toy commercial/cartoons?

    They still look good to me as far as CGI goes, with Beast Machines being better then BW with shading in the CGI, even though the story in Beast Machines was getting a bit too spiritual for a TF cartoon.

I liked these shows, didn't think I would at first but they grew on me. Beast Wars kept getting better and ended before it started going downhill, maybe a blessing. Beast Machines had excellent animation when it came to the atmospheric look of Cybertron. I'm glad they started animating explosions instead of using stock film versions like on Beast Wars. Unfortunately the character designs were ugly. Even more unfortunately the characters that carried over were almost all way out of character and the overall storyline wasn't satisfying.

    Things mentioned in BW/BM that were not really followed up on in the cartoons and I consider botcon comics to be interesting but still along the lines of fan fiction and not really canon, imo:


    1. The Great War ended 3 centuries before these characters crashed on the planet to start the Beast Wars. We know the Autobots won with the aid of the human race....but that is it. What year did the war end? It clearly didn't end when Vector Sigma arranged a new Golden Age and the start of the Headmaster and Targetmasters.

    2. Who survived the Great War? We know Ravage went from Decepticon cassette to Predacon infiltrator, and we did see in flashbacks in Beast Machines that Soundwave was a survivor as well.

Hard to say, any or all of them might have survived. Rattrap mentions his "great aunt Arcee" and Waspinator at one point gets conked on the head and thinks he's Shrapnel, IIRC. Are they people they met and knew or just names from history books? We don't know how old the Beast Wars characters are, some of them could have been around in the Great War and known G1 characters from back then.


    3. The Great Upgrade was mentioned in Beast Machines: that is when the Cybertronians converted from Autobot to Maximal and Decepticon to Predacon and Cybertron was apparently given a new surface via mechaforming or engineering to cover the war torn surface. The city of Iaacon, former Autobot capital became "lost" and it also has a hologram memorial of Optimus Prime. Why the Great Upgrade? Was it to conserve energy resources? Maximals and Predacons are basically evolved/upgraded versions of the Micromasters and they also wear advanced versions of Pretender Armor that is bonded to them for their beast forms.

I don't think they explain on the show. If you go with Alignment, I think they did downsize to conserve fuel, which was the reasoning behind the Micromasters wasn't it?

My understanding was that the Autobots and Decepticons came together to form one race, the Maximals, so-called because they had downsized to maximize fuel efficiency. The Predacons came much later as a terrorist cell growing within the Maximal ranks. They may have admired the Decepticons but weren't a direct continuation.

If by Pretender you mean using biological material in their outer shells, I don't think that was a Maximal thing until Primal's crew came to Earth. They only adopted that form to deal with the energon in the atmosphere. That lead to Megatron doing experiments on combining biology with technology. When they returned to Cybertron in Beast Machines, didn't Optimus say that they had been destined by the Oracle to go to Earth for the Beast Wars just so that they could bring the bio/tech back to Cybertron? Which doesn't really make sense, like you said, they already had Pretenders. And the Head/Target/Powermasters were cyborgs too weren't they? Maybe it was the combination of bio/tech with Vok machinery that was unique to the Beast Wars.

    4. Who are the Maximal Elders? Former Autobots that became Maximals?

    5. There was a statue of Optimus holding Golden Discs in Beast Machines....a tribute statue?

Yeah, when did he have those? One disk was of alien origin, from the Vok as I recall. The other was the Sounds of Earth from the Voyager space probe. The only time they were together was on ancient Earth, right? I think Mainframe even said this was an error.

    6. Beast Wars and Machines are linked to the original cartoon due to Starscream's Ghost which means that Optimus was dead and revived to reclaim leadership from Rodimus and the Matrix was emptied.....was it ever recharged? What is the fate of Optimus Prime? Dead? Missing? Valhalla?

He could be alive or dead. I'm not sure if Matrix lore is very consistent. If you go by Beast Wars lore, the Matrix/Allspark is basically Transformer Heaven. It's where new sparks come from and old ones go when they die. I would assume the Matrix of Leadership was an artifact that allowed the bearer to consult with the spirits within, as the Oracle did on Beast Machines. In that sense it shouldn't be able to be emptied unless you empty out all of Heaven.

    7. Protoform X/Rampage....when Depthcharge arrived on ancient earth, Primal did tell Depthcharge that neither of them were responsible for X destroying Colony Omicron.....why would Optimus state he himself wasn't responsible? Did he have a hand in the creation of Protoform X, and thus that was why HE was chosen to dump X on a barren planet somewhere?

Perhaps he was there to see X's birth and felt responsible.

    8. All-spark/Matrix, Vector Sigma, The Oracle, The Matrix of Leadership....what is the link between them all?

    Dreamwave comics with their G1 series was building up to their own year 2005 event similar to the movie and had ties to Beast Wars as well.....if only IDW could resume the Dreamwave storyline...

Yeah Waspinator as dazed and thinking he was Shrapnel, Decepticon hero.

Black Arachnia stated Shrapnel was from the Great War 3 centuries ago, so we know that it was 300 earth years after the Great War at least.

AS to the Predacons, the Tripredacus Council referred to the Decepticons as their ancestors so it seems as if Decepticons survived the war besides Soundwave and Ravage.

Also Predacon Megatron had an interesting point of view when he entered the Ark to blast Optimus Prime. He was ranting how he felt the Predacons were SLAVES to the Maximals....I suspect his point of view is a bit jaundiced.

As to the Golden Discs, perhaps Cybertronians discovered they could archive themselves onto Golden Discs of their own making after studying the Voyager disc, hence the Discs in the Optimus statue

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