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Post By
Menshevik

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,610
In Reply To
Michael

Subj: Re: How Come The Deaths Of Jean DeWolff, Ben Reilly And Ned Leeds Aren't Mentioned?
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 at 02:32:32 am EST (Viewed 150 times)
Reply Subj: Re: How Come The Deaths Of Jean DeWolff, Ben Reilly And Ned Leeds Aren't Mentioned?
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 at 11:25:30 pm EST (Viewed 5 times)



    Quote:

      Quote:
      I personally found it a bit odd that when Peter interacts with Betty the fact that her brother was violently killed and that her husband was murdered did not come up more often. With Ned it even seemed deliberate to me, because they also made Betty revert back to calling herself by her maiden name and the Foreigner, the pretty interesting villain directly responsible for Ned's death, practically never appeared again and was hardly ever alluded to. Ned's death also should be relevant in Peter's dealings with the Black Cat, but it is understandable that writers using her don't want to bring up the fact that she was in cahoots and in bed with the Foreigner at the time of Ned's murder.



    Quote:
    Regarding the Foreigner, I realize that it's a matter of opinion but I think the problem a lot of fans and readers had was that PAD made him too much of a Villain Sue- He trained Sabretooth! He can talk back to the Kingpin without getting killed and even beat him at chess! He banged the Black Cat! He can have the Hobgoblin killed not personally but just by making a phone call! PAD went over the top and arguably built him up at the expense of other characters.


Well, it is a matter of opinion, others could say that e.g. about the Hobgoblin in his Roger Stern version. Anyway, at that point having trained Sabretooth was not that big deal, as Sabretooth was still essentially a B- or C-list villain then, a lot less redoubtable than he became in the 1990s (nor IIRC had it yet been established in-story that he was much too old to have been trained by the Foreigner). Under PAD Black Cat (who did not have superhuman strength) was able to wipe the floor with him on her own, and even during the Mutant Massacre Psylocke managed the same thing without the special fighting skills she later acquired.

The Kingpin was not terribly diminished by having the Foreigner talk back to him (after all, Spidey and Daredevil also did it all the time without the Kingpin trying to kill them for it) and to the best of my knowledge was never established to be even an above-average chessplayer, so defeating him at chess might not even be that difficult.

Having sex with the Black Cat is not much of an achievement. And that the Foreigner became responsible for the Hobgoblin's death was an accident, due to a) Owsley/Priest simply not bothering to explain who killed Ned Leeds in Spider-Men vs. Wolverine, which was very unsatisfying, and b) PAD unexpectedly being landed with resolving the Hobgoblin mess (1), and the Foreigner happened to be there as an efficient assassin and leader of an organization of international assassins, so he could easily operate in Berlin as well as in New York.

(1) In short: Stern had wanted Roderick Kingsley to be him, but DeFalco had worked with the secret plan of making him the Rose and built up Ned Leeds as a red herring, also for his editor. Owsley tried to sabotage this by killing off Ned Leeds (whom he believed to be the guy whom DeFalco would reveal as the Hobgoblin), and when PAD had the matter dropped into his lap, he thought the clues inevitably led to the conclusion that Ned had to have been the Hobgoblin.




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