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Post By
Menshevik

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,610
In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 18,157
Subj: Re: Doc Ock // Spidey !!!
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 at 03:34:29 pm EST (Viewed 119 times)
Reply Subj: Doc Ock // Spidey !!!
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 at 07:07:48 am EST (Viewed 98 times)



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      I would say with reference to Doc Ock that a lot of this is ex-post reinterpretation.



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    On the contrary !!! (°_°)



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    That's when I read his first Siver Age appearances that I started to see him that way :



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    - Peter Parker (PP) // Otto Octavius (OO)


Stan Lee lived to give characters alliterative names as it helped him to remember them. Bruce Banner, Betty Brant, Curt Connors, John Jameson, J. Jonah Jameson, Matt Murdock, Susan Storm, Stephen Strange, Scott Summers, Warren Worthington, it's no big deal.


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    - Spidey = an invertebrate with 8 legs // Doc Ock = an invertebrate with 8 arms



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    - Spidey's main weapon = web // Doc Ock's main weapon = web


Except in Doc Ock's case it isn't.


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    - Octavius looks like an older Parker who would never have become Spider-Man. Both Peter Parker & Otto Octavius wear glasses. Both have short haircut (the bowl haircut will come later. Octavius had the same haircut than the Roman Emperor Augustus when he first appeared).


Octavius had a bowl haircut right from the start. Besides, this was the early 1960s, every male character that wasn't bald (alas, poor Vulture!) wore his hair short back then. Also, like a number of Ditko villains, Octavius looked downright ugly even before he became Dr. Octopus, while Peter even when Ditko drew him looked quite handsome, especially when he took off his glasses (and of course during John Romita's run he stopped wearing glasses altogether). For Doc Ock on the other hand there's no notable improvement when he takes his glasses off.


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    - Spidey's origin = radioactive accident // Doc Ock's origin = radioactive accident


Pretty generic for the time, as nuclear weapons and experiments were much in the news. The Sandman also got his powers from a radioactive accident, so did the Hulk. The Fantastic Four got theirs from another form of radiation (cosmic rays). Heck, in the 1960s the origin of mutants was linked to radioactivity - in this case affecting the parents.


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    - Aunt May is wrong about both characters : she hates Spidey because she believes what the Daily Bugle writes; she trusts Doc Ock because she thinks that he is a sweet & polite man.



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    - Spidey feels guilty about the death of Ben Parker, his adoptive father // Doc Ock feels no remorse about the death of George Stacy, Gwen's father.


Hmm, in a number of cases above you stress what they have in common, here you stress what separates them to make your case. Somehow I have this hunch that if Doc Ock actually had felt remorse over George Stacy's death you would have also used that as something that supports your contention. (Leaving aside that this happened a long time into the franchise (ASM #90, 1970, and George Stacy was only created quite some time after Ditko left).


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    - During the Nullifier storyline : thanks to the weapon, Spidey lost his mind // Doc Ock lost the control of his arms. Also during the same storyline, Doc Ock tries to make an amnesiac Spidey his partner in crime.



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    Et cetera.



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    That's why he is my all-time favorite Spidey foe :
    Since ASM #3, Stan Lee & Steve Ditko had planned Doc Ock to be Spidey's true antithesis.



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    That's also why he is the best villain of the Raimi trilogy.


In Spider-Man 2 Octavius before the accident was set up as the kind of person Peter wanted to be - a successful scientist who also was happily married. But Raimi's Doc Ock was a profoundly different person from the Doc Ock of the comics, a much nicer person, not even a true villain as he was to a large extent controlled by his artificial arms. And in the end he died a hero.


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    During the 1960s, Doc Ock was not only one of the main archnemesis (the other is, of course, Green Goblin), he was also a reverse Spidey (the others are, of course, Scorpion and Spider Slayer Mark III).



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    Actually, I read all these stories before reading Web of Death or Superior Spider-Man.



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      And I reject the notion that "if there is not Ock, there is no Peter Parker".


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    I don't. \:\-\)


Well, duh, you were the one who proposed it in the first place.


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    During many years, Peter Parker has been a superhero without Norman Osborn around (granted, other Goblins were around).



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    On the contrary, Doc Ock is to Peter Parker what Sinestro is to Hal Jordan, Zoom to Barry Allen, Mandarin to Tony Stark, Red Skull to Steve Rogers, Doctor Doom to Reed Richards, Magneto to Professor Xavier, .... the Antithesis.


In some cases - Professor X/Magneto, Iron Man/Mandarin - I would say "primary antagonist" but not an or THE antithesis (the Mandarin is Iron Man's antithesis in the same sense in which e.g. Juggernaut would be Professor X's, i. e. in a completely different way from Richards/Doom and Jordan/Sinestro).


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    The Goblin legacy is the greatest threat (like Ra's al Ghul : "immortal") but Doc Ock is the antithesis.
    When there is a new Spidey (Reilly), there is a new Doc Ock (Trainer).


Sometimes there's even a new Doc Ock when there isn't a new Spidey (e. g. during JMS's run).


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    BTW, Doc Ock also fits what Ezekiel said : Spidey is a true animal totem // Doc Ock is a totemistic pretender (artificial arms).


Many of Spider-Man's foes can be said to be totemic pretenders (during the Ditko era: the Vulture, Kraven, the Scorpion, later e. g. the Rhino, the Grizzly and even the Black Cat) and some to be properly totemic (the Lizard springs to mind first).


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    On the contrary, the Goblin has no link with animalistic totems.


Actually, he does have kind of reptilian skin a lot of the time, and he is overtly linked to bats (his bat-glider and the razor-sharp bats he throws).



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