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Subj: Re: Complicated...
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 at 07:53:47 am EST (Viewed 346 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Complicated...
Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 at 02:07:35 pm EST (Viewed 318 times)
Quote:Thank you. It's nice to know someone else feels the same as I do. Harry was a way better Goblin, and original Hobgoblin was more formidable than either of the Osborns.
Agreed, Harry was a great character, and was really menacing at the end. He was however Hobgoblin was a stronger antagonist.
Though, Dematteis did have him just tearing out Peter's heart, with his whole "Cape Fear" style.
Having been born in the 80s, I never considered Norman Peter's greatest foe. It was Doc Ock. Norman was dead when I started reading. I had always heard how great he was.
The fact is, those stories (minus Gwen's Death) never felt as dire, when I eventually read them.
I think he is a victim of nostalgia, and much like Gwen's death created a false greatness of character, I think it also did that for Norman.
When he first came back, I liked that he was going at Peter from behind the scenes as a business man. After that, when he started psychologically tormenting Peter, wasn't that more Harry's thing?
They actually borrowed, and watered down, Harry's style to make Norman a better foe.
Quote:Again, thank you. An effete, cold-blooded, calculating business tycoon goes third-world, guerrilla mercenary? No. Slott wrote Kingsley like he was Macendale, and it's one of his major failings, in my opinion. Also, handing out super-identities is more the Tinkerer's deal. Nothing in Kingsley's previous depictions could make me believe he would pivot this way.
Yeah. One of the great things about Spidey in the 80s, was how everything came together, while still operating its own space. 1982-ASM 300, does feel like one big story.
A big part of that was how menacing Hobgoblin was. You could feel his presence, even in books he wasn't in. He would show up in two panels to tease a story down the line.
MJ convinced Pete to stop being Spider-Man, but not until Hobgoblin was stopped. He was that threatening to New York.
That is actually why I love Harry an Hobby so much. Harry is a great character, and he hits Pete so close to home, he is more fun to read. Hobgoblin, he held a city in fear (or at least large factions), his stories felt like a win for team Goblin was bad news.
They represent Pete pushed to his limit in both potential ways.
I actually almost picked up ASM, before the 50th anniversary, when I heard Kingsley was back. I knew t was a smart idea not to, when I saw what they did.
I came to a realization about Slott, he is rewriting everything since 1981. That is where Brand NEw Day palced Pete, a lamer version of himself in 1981.
You say Hobgoblin is one of his biggest missteps? I say it would be easier to name his correct moves, sure a shorter list.
He messes Peter up, he turned teh character that first pulled me into comics, into a character on teh Big Bang Theory.
That is his problem all over. He fears depth, after a fashion. So many characters he writes become caricature, devoid of nuance or depth.
Hobes is a perfect example. I think he just saw "fashion designer," and boom, there was teh idea of renting out costumes and names. and effete.
It was pointed out to me once, that Slott writes for Marvel Team_up, and it is true, while Team -Up wasn't a magnet for the issues Slott brings to the tables, it was more in line with Slott's sensiblities. Though, I do remember Claremont, Dematteis, Wein, and Conway, finding room for more character in MTU, but it was more about spectacle over character than either ASM or PPSSM.
I fear I may have babbled too much about Mr. Slott.
Quote:In MY continuity, the Hobgoblin is Richard Fisk. It would have been a much better story than either Leeds or Kingsley. Again, I blame Priest.
I'm not sure I would go that far, but yea, that would be a cool idea.
Kingsley did have connection and dealing with organized crime from his first appearance, but he was so much less memorable than Richard Fisk or Ned.
I don' know if Stern would have pumped him up more (he was employing MJ at the time), but I do get where you are coming from, and why it didn't seem the obvious answer to Marvel at the time.
I just Wish Marvel would do a villain that amazing again. The last SPider-villain with that much charisma and gravity to them was, what? Venom? I may be spacing on some character, but that feels right.